View Full Version : Discus style tank dud - opinions needed
I ordered a 450x250mm tank, 700mm high, a couple of days back, not specifying the thickness of glass required from a LFS, also repairing and constructing tanks. Picked it up, started it up, and it blew open along one of the seams shortly after. In my stupidity and haste I didn't really think about the glass thickness, which turned out to be 4mm. The guys that built it don't want to hear anything about it. I'm contemplating doing it myself out of 9mm glass. Any opinions?
I don't keep discus, but based on what has been discussed on TASA more water is better and I think your tanks is a bit on the small side. Anyway 9 mm should be fine.
8140
BTW you can replace that 4 mm panel with another and only fill the tank to a water high of about 30cm .. the rest can be used to scape and plants things emersed.
Later Ferdie
The guys that built it don't want to hear anything about it.
Why? Are they not tank builders or did they warn you or was it done just as a favour by novices? If they are professional tank builders, I can not see how they can just step way from it, unless they warned you. What do you mean with:
it blew open along one of the seams
Did the glass break or did the silicon come loose?
I don't keep discus, but based on what has been discussed on TASA more water is better and I think your tanks is a bit on the small side. Anyway 9 mm should be fine.
8140
BTW you can replace that 4 mm panel with another and only fill the tank to a water high of about 30cm .. the rest can be used to scape and plants things emersed.
Later Ferdie
Sorry, was supposed to add it is only discus style, indended for guppies, mollies, angels, etc. depending on what I was feeling like.
Why? Are they not tank builders or did they warn you or was it done just as a favour by novices? If they are professional tank builders, I can not see how they can just step way from it, unless they warned you. What do you mean with:
Did the glass break or did the silicon come loose?
They advertise themselves as pro tank builders, and also offer services like drilling etc. I didn't specif thickness, but based on the price they quoted me, I assumed it would be at least 7mm plate glass. I just didn't want to do it myself because of the mess and initial smell. In hindsight it made a much bigger mess, though. wasn't warned or anyting, but actually calculating the pressure of the water and known strength of the glass, 4mm was just barely enough.
The silicon came loose, creating a gap of approx. 10cm wide. I was able to press it closed with my hand and siphon the water out.
The silicon came loose, creating a gap of approx. 10cm wide.
I am no expert, but this reeks of poor craftsmanship. Can they get away with it?
Can they get away with it?
No they can't!! With the new consumer act they will end up badly second. Give the consumer rights board a call and they will be asking back for there tank soon enough.
012 428 7071.
Thanks for the tips gents. I'll do so asap.
PS I am so fed up with their poor service and knowledge anycase, the fish I order from them get "quarantined" for a week before they are allowed to sell them, apparently it is shop policy, but they generally are in a worse state than when they initially arrived, as I know who supplies them. I also order from othes stores on a regular basis, from the same supplier. Some of the shops will ring me the shipment has arrived, and I pick it up straight out of the box, no problems, with those fish in much better health and much lower fatality rate. Sounds to me like the same story on a Discus thread on here somewhere.
Personally I don't thing the Consumer Protection Act will be much help at all. As captain stated himself, he did not mention glass thickness when placing the order.
Personally I don't thing the Consumer Protection Act will be much help at all. As @captain (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=1785) stated himself, he did not mention glass thickness when placing the order.
Glass thickness has nothing to with the tank splitting. If it did, the glass would have cracked. It is bad craftmanship and IMO the tank was either filled to early, or the glass was not cleaned properly before it was assembled.
Too thin a glass could cause splitting because the glass would bow, creating movement in the joints
The thing is I can't sell you anything if I know it is weak or defective in any
way. Unless captain told them directly to use 4mm glass its their fault.
He is also within his rights to return it within 7 days if not happy with the product or work.
P.s call them and hear what they say, what do you have to loose?
DesertConvert
02-05-2011, 12:49
Erm...to be honest, if they were really "professional" tank builders they should know that 4mm glass for a tank 700mm high is not acceptable! If I had no experience in aquaria, but wanted a tank with those dimensions to fit in a certain alcove or shelf, the onus would be on the builder to supply a tank which was constructed from the correct materials.
8141
Too thin a glass could cause splitting because the glass would bow, creating movement in the joints
The glass should come to breaking point before splitting, even more so with a fully cured tank. Silicone is very flexible, unlike glass.
Erm...to be honest, if they were really "professional" tank builders they should know that 4mm glass for a tank 700mm high is not acceptable! If I had no experience in aquaria, but wanted a tank with those dimensions to fit in a certain alcove or shelf, the onus would be on the builder to supply a tank which was constructed from the correct materials.
8141
Ditto. That is how I see it as well.
The glass should come to breaking point before splitting, even more so with a fully cured tank. Silicone is very flexible, unlike glass.
My sentiment as well.
These oaks should have advised you. It is their trade. Even more so if I did not mention glass thickness. So how did they get to 4mm and not 10mm?
Makes me think about an anecdote the PnP buyers like to tell. They hammered the Chinese for a deal on tennis balls. They got their ridiculous price (the Chinese can not say no) and ordered containers full. Six months later the containers pitched, with hairy squash balls!
Thanks guys. The tank was left at least a week to dry before the water was put in. Guess I'll have a go at them then tomorrow, as soon as they open shop.
He is also within his rights to return it within 7 days if not happy with the product or work.
I've been on the Consumer Act lectures. He doesn't have a right to take it back.. ONLY IF IT IS PROVEN faulty...
P.s call them and hear what they say, what do you have to loose?
Agreed
Erm...to be honest, if they were really "professional" tank builders they should know that 4mm glass for a tank 700mm high is not acceptable! If I had no experience in aquaria, but wanted a tank with those dimensions to fit in a certain alcove or shelf, the onus would be on the builder to supply a tank which was constructed from the correct materials.
Not necessarily true.. but you have a point.
You can be a professional tank builder specializing in tanks up to 500mm. I'm a Project Manager speciailizing in the consturction of upper market residential homes. You are more than welcome to contract me to build your 50k sq. meter shopping centre, but if it doesn't meet your expectations, you aren't covered under the Consumer Act to "return" or not pay just because it's poor quality. My specialty area is residential. (Obviously I would need to mention that to the consumer). If the product was faulty, the consumer would need to prove it was faulty due to MY NEGLIGENCE, and not rather due to my lack of experience.
Let me put it this way... Plaster comes in different grade mixes. Obviously when plastering the internal of a commercial building, I would need a higher quality plaster because it is subject to more wear and tear than a residential property. If you contract me to build your shopping centre, and I am unaware of this fact (which most residential builder's would be)... 3 months down the line when 50% of the plaster is chipped off from trolleys etc.... you cannot FORCE the rsidential builder to make good the plaster when you KNOWINGLY hired a residential builder to build your commercial property. However if it was a commercial builder, they would have to repair. (99% of commercial builder's wouldn't use plaster in any case, they'd have used concrete, or covered the wall in tiles or protective wear!)
So whilst you are sort of under the consumer act... check it out... make that call. Ask them WHY they used 4mm when such a high tank warrants a thicker glass. You more than likely find that either (1) they really are not professional tank builder's, or (2) they made an honest mistake.
IF they start claiming that it's not their fault... THEN you mention to them (politely) that you will be seeking legal advise with your lawyer as you "believe" this will fall under the consumer act. DO NOT MENTION that you have to get a lawyer, or find one... make it sound as if you have one already... even if you say "your company's legal representative"...
You'll have a new tank within a week!
DesertConvert
03-05-2011, 09:45
Not necessarily true.. but you have a point.
OK, call it common sense then. I built my own tank...with NO prior knowledge. I researched building methods, discovered the importance of glass thickness (how the taller you build, the thicker the glass needs to be), how it takes 24hrs for the silicone to properly cure, etc. I tested the tank over several days to ensure there were no leaks, or that the panels didn't crack/pop out. They have NO excuse. That tank should NEVER have been built with 4mm glass if they are even remotely involved in aquaria. IF, however, they only sell dogs & cats and don't offer tank building as a service and captain 'twisted' their collective arms to build him a tank, then they possibly have a leg to stand on.
If they do get funny report them on hellopeter.
Ashley I see your point but like you said if I contract you to build something
you do not specialize in you are OBLIGED to tell me so.
If I get a contractor to build me a garage I expect him to build it with brick and
That it would be safe. He is the expert. Now if he builds me a garage out of plaster board
and it collapse I think I have a right to report him.
If I get a contractor to build me a garage I expect him to build it with brick and
That it would be safe. He is the expert. Now if he builds me a garage out of plaster board
and it collapse I think I have a right to report him.
If your architect SPEC'd plasterboard and it collapsed??
I agree with ALL you guys... all I am saying is TAKE IT UP WITH THE PRODUCER FIRST. We're all quick to throw in Hellopeter and now the consumer act... when the consumer act may not even help you... (and then you've made an ars of yourself.)
TAKE IT UP WITH THE PRODUCER FIRST
The guys that built it don't want to hear anything about it.
He has done that?
As of this morning I have already tried a couple of approaches. The long and the short of it is it is not worth while to bother with them anymore. They throw a curve ball everytime you want to confront them. I will just stop dealing with them, and also not refer my clients to them anymore. I'll just build my own tanks from now on.
BTW I have just ordered glass for a 160L Discus tank, 1200x300x450mm
As of this morning I have already tried a couple of approaches. The long and the short of it is it is not worth while to bother with them anymore. They throw a curve ball everytime you want to confront them. I will just stop dealing with them, and also not refer my clients to them anymore. I'll just build my own tanks from now on.
At this point you get someone from the Consumer Act involved.
You can go the hellopeter route... but in my experience... this is not worth it at all, unless you dealing with the big corporates.
Glass thickness has nothing to with the tank splitting
Not true. Height = presure right? And 4 mm glass have to little silicon area to handle that height presure.
Not true. Height = presure right? And 4 mm glass have to little silicon area to handle that height presure.
Silicone is unbelievably strong and flexible in small amounts but I see where you coming from and have to disagree. Tank would crack before any splitting takes place. I'll stick with that unless someone can throw me with a equation that can prove me wrong.
Anyway, my point is captain got ripped...
Just throwing in some factors here but yes the point is Captain got ripped.
Well, this afternoon I received a phonecall from the owner of the shop. She said that she was extremely sorry for the mess, apparently the oke that built the tank messed up properly, and it was not his first time his workmanship went awry.
After I sent her a pic, she offered me to replace the tank, but I said I would rather fix it myself (I have other plans for it now that rhymes with cake).
I told her that I would rather have discount on glass for my new discus tank that I am planning (I'll start a thread on it somewhere else). Guess what? She gave me all the glass for free.
So I just went and picked it up, bought some silicone and put it together.
Cheers
Adam
Glad you got it resolved :)
Cake-fake, you setting up a fake tank with fake fish ? :5
Cake-snake. Nice and high for some nice branching ones
Well, there you go. Good on her!
DesertConvert
04-05-2011, 07:53
Glad to hear it!
Here it is: I changed my mind in the meanwhile and decided to go with a sump filter. Sump still needs filter media.
84528449
I had holes for the inlet and overflow drilled in the sides, as they didn't want to risk drilling in the back. I also used some silica sand as substrate - it will be a new one for me.
844884508451
http://purevb4.tropicalaquarium.co.za/images/misc/pencil.png
The Hitman
20-05-2011, 17:49
I like those black elbows that you used. Do they Pivot? Do you have any pics of them before assembly including the part in the tank? Where did you get it from?
TroyFish
20-05-2011, 17:57
Used a similar type of fitting. Screws in so no need for silicone (can be removed easy if needed). Maybe yours is different.
Just a head up, be careful! You might need to add a grid by the down flow pipe. Have lost a few fish by going down into the sump.
Also, why were there 2 holes drilled for the return line?
I like those black elbows that you used. Do they Pivot? Do you have any pics of them before assembly including the part in the tank? Where did you get it from?
The elbows are not designed to pivot, but you are able to move them with some force. It is basically a mushroom with about 10cm of threadand a plastic nut, that I cut off and attached the elbows. They do not neccesarily require silicon, but I used some just incase.
You could try to get some from your local irrigation specialist, but I am told by everyone that JB Stamp might have some. These one's I got from the LPS, but don't go ask, they haven't got anymore, these were only some spare ones left after they initially set up shop.
Used a similar type of fitting. Screws in so no need for silicone (can be removed easy if needed). Maybe yours is different. Just a head up, be careful! You might need to add a grid by the down flow pipe. Have lost a few fish by going down into the sump. Also, why were there 2 holes drilled for the return line?
My plan is to add a small grid at the downflow, but the sump is designed in such a way that the fish get trapped in the sump before they reach the filter media. The hole of the downflow is the smallest in the pipe, so if they fish do go in there,they won't get stuck in the pipe, but the idea is to keep fish that won't fitin there in the first place.
The reason I have 2 holes for downflow is that the powerhead I use as sump pump delivers about 600l/h at the height that it is currently pumping at, and the downpipes can only accomodate 750l/h when the water is in freefall. As soon as they are fully submersed, they will do more, but because the pipes going into the sump have a bigger diameter than the inlet, an air cavity will form, and every now and then a bubble will come up the pipe and make a gastly "pop" that otherwise upsets the "serenety" of the tank :)
At the moment the tank and filter is nice and quiet, but provides plenty of aeration and surface area for gas exchange. I'll start adding fish sometime next week and kick the cycle off.
The Hitman
20-05-2011, 18:34
cool man thanx will go check out an irrigation shop
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