View Full Version : Pressurized CO2 questions for the plant geeks
I'm in the process of getting the heart of the pressurized CO2 system. I'm in contact with Altum and we are discussing the Dual guage regulator with solenoid and needle valve.
I'm guessing I can get the bottle up in JHB cheaper than shipping something from CT, however I have a few questions for the members who are running CO2:
(1) Does a CO2 bottle have the similar type of "tap" attachment as to your gas bottles for your gas heaters? If so, I would assume you fill from there, close the "tap", attach the regulator, and you're A-for-away. (?). Or does the regulator get fit onto the bottle, and you fill the bottle through the regulator?
(2) WHERE can I get a bottle? (I know you all going to say a fire extinguisher, and go to Builder's... BUT builder's only sell the DCP fire extinguishers, and not the CO2 type. If you actually KNOW of a place I can go get a bottle, please PM me a name and number?
(3) WHERE can I get the bottle filled?
(4) I'm assuming I might possibly need some reducers/fittings etc if the regulator doesn't fit... where can I source these?
I don't want to go and spend the cash on the regulator etc and find I'm up a creek without a paddle...
Regards
Hey Zoom – Nice to see you taking the plunge into a full on high tech system !
I am certainly by no means whatsoever an expert in the slightest way, but nonetheless…. I am also in the process of taking the proverbial plunge into a high tech tank with pressurized Co2 etc…. And my observations thus far would be as follows;
1. I would imagine the majority of regulators ( particularly if sourced locally ) have a standardized thread / tap size…. Only the specialist makes from overseas and the like seem to have unique sizes…. Regulator will then fit the standard thread… IE: Attach the regulator / needle vale to the bottle’s outlet directly….
2. I often frequent the builders Warehouse in Edenvale, and I have seen 2kg Co2 fire extinguishers there. In the alternative you can also buy Co2 fire extinguisher bottles directly from places like Chubb fire ( midrand perhaps ) or similar such suppliers, particularly if you looking for something bigger than a 2kg bottle and that’s if you don’t mind the thought of using a fire extinguisher bottle…
3. I have had mine filled at Exotic pets in Boksburg, but must admit they were terribly expensive…. You could try any decent marine orientated LPS, welding supply companies, Afrox I think, and naturally fire equipment supply companies ( I seem to recall a thread on APSA about there being a fire place in Kempton which is very cheap, haven’t tried any of the above yet though, as I have not yet had need to refill mine )….
4. If a standard sized regulator is bought im sure this wont be a problem….
Hope the above helps… sure some of the more experienced plant fundi’s will have lots more to say though.
I'm in the process of getting the heart of the pressurized CO2 system. I'm in contact with Altum and we are discussing the Dual guage regulator with solenoid and needle valve.
I'm guessing I can get the bottle up in JHB cheaper than shipping something from CT, however I have a few questions for the members who are running CO2:
(1) Does a CO2 bottle have the similar type of "tap" attachment as to your gas bottles for your gas heaters? If so, I would assume you fill from there, close the "tap", attach the regulator, and you're A-for-away. (?). Or does the regulator get fit onto the bottle, and you fill the bottle through the regulator?
(2) WHERE can I get a bottle? (I know you all going to say a fire extinguisher, and go to Builder's... BUT builder's only sell the DCP fire extinguishers, and not the CO2 type. If you actually KNOW of a place I can go get a bottle, please PM me a name and number?
(3) WHERE can I get the bottle filled?
(4) I'm assuming I might possibly need some reducers/fittings etc if the regulator doesn't fit... where can I source these?
I don't want to go and spend the cash on the regulator etc and find I'm up a creek without a paddle...
Regards
ok dude,
1.) u fill the bottle through the opening of the co2 cannister not through the regulator
2.)like u guessed, builders warehouse.. most of the bigger builders will store the co2 ones.. otherwise ones i have seen that have are the ones in centurion, greenstone.
3.) pm sent
4.)the regulator will fit. as long as u get a standard regulator and standard co3 bottle.
good luck! :)
oscar freak
04-02-2011, 14:34
sorry dont mean to hijack now but HOW important is a co2 kit for a planted tank ie does it make a BIG difference to plant growth and health?and for those aka me who are not very diy can you just buy a co2 thingy at the petshop and plug it in?
it makes a HUGE difference in plant growth..
do u need it? no. u can still get good growth and health with out it.
can u buy at most LFS? no. usually online or through the sponsors
u can think of co2 and light like an accelerator pedal.. only thing is that they work hand in hand.. higher light, more co2. more co2 more light. else u get lots of algae or lots of dead fish..
oh and pushing the pedal u need much more fuel (nutrients) some ppl resort to dosing every day!
oscar freak
In a nut shell... yes, CO2 will make a huge difference. If you look at the award winning planted tanks, they all running undergravel ferts, and CO2. DIY just doesn't come CLOSE to the real deal. Go look at the following people's tanks:
shihr wearsbunnyslippers Laure Rudi and ask them if they would EVER achieve that type of growth without their CO2. Remember CO2 is introducing CARBON to the tank, in a form that the plants can take in. Basic biology is the plants absorb CO2, use the CARBON as the BASIC FUNDEMENTAL element of growth, and release the O2.
~* Drum roll please *~
La aaa aaaadieeeeees & GentleMEN (Say this in a circus announcer's voice)
I am proud to announce that I have accepted a quotation on a COMPLETE CO2 kit.
Kit includes: (to my knowledge)
1 x 5kg fire extinguisher (full) [might even be a 7.5kg- current owner not 100% sure] {Estimated cost to refill at fire-house R250.00]
1 x regulator with solenoid and needle valve
1 x glass bubble counter
1 x glass non return valve
1 x glass diffuser
@ a price of R1800.00
{I was quoted R1500.00 for for the regulator, and R450.00 for a 2kg bottle... you do the maths}
Current owner ran 4 planted 4 foot tanks on one bottle for 3 months. We estimate that my single 4 ft tank will last about 12-18 months on one refill!
Houses,Co2 Systems.....we better see a brilliant tank comming up.
Zoom,
Thats the bargain of the year,dude.Well done!!
Be careful with those glass equipment,they look great but break very easily.
Zoom - I don't have CO2 :)
And congratulations on the purchase. What you need to find out is WHERE THE *#&%&# do you buy the nylon regulator seals? I have ordered off Ebay, I have got some from the Fire Extinguisher people...nothing works. I have the Azoo regulator. There is nothing special about the connection. But then again, this will only be a problem for you in about 12 months' time. Good luck!
Houses,Co2 Systems.....we better see a brilliant tank comming up.
There are some "brilliant tank" ideas growing bossies in my mind at the moment. I've got the picture in my head... but just to get the scaping around it!
Zoom,
Thats the bargain of the year,dude.Well done!!
Be careful with those glass equipment,they look great but break very easily.
Yeah, that's also my biggest concern. Luckily for me, if they do break, I do have spare plastic non-return valve, and plastic bubble counter. And believe it or not, I actually have a spare glass diffuser too!!! (I know you all asking WTF? Don't ask!)
Zoom - I don't have CO2 :)
And congratulations on the purchase. What you need to find out is WHERE THE *#&%&# do you buy the nylon regulator seals? I have ordered off Ebay, I have got some from the Fire Extinguisher people...nothing works. I have the Azoo regulator. There is nothing special about the connection. But then again, this will only be a problem for you in about 12 months' time. Good luck!
I'll start looking now!
My next question is... where do I get CO2 resistant tubing?
Ebay. I don't know of any local suppliers.
Hey Ashley
Nice acquisition list
I have spares for YOUR SPARES...:p
CO2 tubing you looking for...
Any specific length?
I'm almost soldout, I think there's a few m my depot.
Failing which more wil be available end of Feb(hopefully)
you can call, or pm
No need to be bashful...my offer stands:blink1:
Zoom,
I'm gonna say something some people may disagree with,but what ever....
Those glass diffusers,no matter what make they are,is in my opinion,the worst Co2 diffuser you can buy.
They break very easily,they get covered in algae very fast and need to be cleaned often.And when it breaks or is being cleaned,your tank is without Co2 in that time.
Back to Co2 fluctuation and algae.
Rather pass the Co2 through a power head with a slight modification,and you can have near total dissolution and better Co2 distribution in the tank.
I've heard this before Rudi.
What in your opinion is the modifications to a powerhead that should be done? Not just added to the venturi?
Rudi are you talking about a full powerhead or one of those smaller internal filters with venturi inlet?
ok guys.. heres a good article on everything about pressurised co2..
helped me understand alot when i first started out..
http://www.njagc.net/articles/co2.htm
hope the mods dont mind.. else can delete my post.. no hard feelings.
oh and Zoom, imo, co2 resistant tubes IMO are a nice to have.. ive used silicone tubes since the begining.. they do go hard after a year or so but silicone tubes are so readily availabe and cheap! why not use that instead? after a year u could just discard the old tube and use a new one! another plus in using normal tubing is that most co2 tubing is black and not that good looking.. up to u though..
@Rudi (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=304), i agree that the glass diffuser may not be the best option for diffusing co2.. but i think most ppl use it because, its a small and elegant piece of work.. a power head in a good aqua scape may ruin the whole look and may even block light to plants below. but like u said, it does have very nice diffusing capabilities.. but having said that i'd rather go for a co2 reactor instead.
so to me, it comes down to a matter of preference. i'd use a glass diffuser mainly for the reasons above. even though i'd waste abit more co2 but it certainly looks much better in the tank imo..
Zoom,
Vis,
This will be the standard power head,without the filtercartriges.The Co2 is passed through the impeller.With some easy modifications the bubbles are chopped so small,they don't even reach the surface.They dissolve completely.I'll take some pic's and post them.
shihr,
Equipment is a unfortunate necessity in any aquarium.From heaters to filter pipes,you can't avoid them.How you use them is the trick.
Most can be hidden in the tank or sump if you have one.In most planted tanks,as you know,extra flow is essential.If you are using a power head for this purpose,it can double as a Co2 diffuser.
And as for a power head blocking light,if the lights are that weak,then Co2 is not needed.
why not use a paintball cannister? like slojo's diy system? or is this a lot different from his setup?
Zoom,
Vis,
The promised photos.
#1 Power head
#2 impeller.If the blades are made of a flexible plastic,they can be cut in half with a side cutter.Each blade can then be bent slightly in the opposite direction.The "extra" blades will shred the Co2 bubbles smaller.Expect to lose a bit a of flow.
#3,#4 impeller.If the blades are of a harder,less flexible plastic,use a drill with a small diameter and drill holes through the blades.The holes"catch" some of the bubbles and shred them smaller.
#5 Insert air tubing into power head.
The power head runs as quiet as before.
By doing this conversion,all guarantee on the power head is lost.
I actually just realised that slojo's paintball diy setup is only a .5 liter co2 Container. So.. lol sorry. Hey Rudi, i saw on your other thread that you use a fire extinguisher. How do you connect the regulator to the fire extinguisher?
Mic.E,
Most Co2 regulators have 22mm "connector",same as fire extinguisher.Just remove horn supplied with the extinguisher and connect regulator.
Rudi, how do you fill the extinguisher?
Rudi. thanks. im going to see if i can go get prices on regulators and fire extinguishers tommorow. Also getting 4 x54w t5 lights tomorrow. :).
ashley, you should add pictures :P when you can :)
Rudi have you ever had to replace the nylon seal on your regulator?
Mic.E Contact Altum for those regulators. His were really well priced too.
I'm planning on doing the photo's when I set up with tank again. Will be a few weeks.
Laure, seals should be replaced at every fill. (for me i usually do it every second fill)
Zoom, they have a machine connected to a big co2 cannister supply filled with liquid co2 to fill your cannister from what i was told. what happens is, (also from looking at videos on youtube) they fill your cannister once, then let the co2 out. this makes the cannister cold enough to hold even more co2. next, they fill it again and weigh it to the apropriate weight. anything more, it could explode, anything less it wont be full.
also the co2 cannister supply has a steel pipe inside running to the bottom of the cannister, this ensures that liquid co2 is pumped into your refil cannister.
Hi shihr
Yes I do know that seals should be replaced frequently. I have an Azoo regulator and I cannot find seals that fit properly. Hence, I am not running CO2 at all. Perhaps I was not clear. WHERE can I get hold of these?
well the petstore i go to usually has some seals left over.. so they give it to me free.. i'd think u can go into any plumbing shop or hardware shop with the same seal and they probably get a replacement
Zoom, sorry for the thread hijack...but perhaps what we are discussing here will also be helpful to you and others browsing this thread.
Shihr, not quite so easy. I have a fire extinguisher bottle and the Fire Shop gave me seals but they don't work. I then ordered seals from a Brewing House and the holes in the middle aren't big enough. I suppose I can drill them bigger but then I risk damaging the seal's outer section because I will have to clamp it down somehow to be able to drill...it's a damn nightmare!
This is a good picture of the regulator and the seal that fits over the inner nipple.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRm_GeL7bqb-HSoMnP2ilhfXbzx6en7BS9d9plMRBJt7nLpgg9m&t=1
silly question though.. does it leak?
Yes it does leak if I try the seals I got from the fire extinguisher shop. And the ones from the brewing house does not fit due to the fact that the centre hole is too small; it need to fit over the inner nipple on the regulator connector, as per the picture above.
eish sorry.. really dont know then.. all i can think of is look for seals on the net and order a bunch?
oscar freak
07-02-2011, 11:04
if we talking about your run of the mill seal vitron or nitril if i can get a size maybe i can help you guys out.
Got a Client in Durbs that can manufacture any seal/gasket.(as long as they have a sample or dimensions)
Company called Gasket.Ask for Roger and tell him i referred you.
Wow this all seems quite complicated. I have a question, it may be stupid, but this regulator, is it the same type of regulator you get for air compressors or wont those work? because i have an extra adjustable regulator that i want to use on a fire extinguisher, would it be safe? and another question, would a solenoid that they use for irrigation work if its attached after the regulator( because as i understand, the pressure should now be reduced).
if i cant use the regulator i have, ill contact Altum. Thanks @ Zoom.
Awesome thread
Zoom,
I bought all my extinguishers at the same place,a fire engineering company,and take them back to get refilled.They know me,they know what I use the extinguishers for,so they don't service the extinguishers at every refill.Saves money,pay only for the gas.R40 for 2kg's.
Laure,
I've got the same Azoo reg. you have.I haven't replaced that seal for the same reason you haven't.But I check the reg. for leaks at every change.Nothing so far.
Rudi
Yip, but now I need to replace the seal, as it leaks CO2 out the threaded connection when I open the fire extinguisher bottle. Hence I don't use CO2 and haven't done so for many months! This is how long I have been looking for the right seal!
Laure,
Sorry friend,I'm stumped.
Another option,finances permitting,is get a new regulator.
I recently bought a SAGA regulator.A spare seal is provided.
That's all I can think of.
Rudi
I am thinking along those lines too. And I believe all the rage over at Tom Barr's forum are Victor regulators (which are surprisingly not so expensive). Then I can mount one of those brass perma-seals and never look back!
Laure you talking about something like the Victor Inert Gas Flowgauge - Edge Series ESS3 Medium Duty .... that does look like a nice regulator.
Local stock or e-purchase ?
Later Ferdie
The thing with CO2 is that that more people kill fish with CO2 than with anything else. So many things can go wrong. It is thus best to either get top of the range equipments, or nothing at all. Get a dual stage regulator (Victor, Matheson, etc. all good quality brand names), get a quality needle valve (Ideal, Fabco, Clippard), good solenoid (Bukert), brass fittings (Swagelok) and assemble all the parts. Until you know how to use CO2, get a ph controller to help you. With the above you will have a very nice piece of equipment that should likely last a life time. But costly...
No the "medium duty" range is single gauge and will not do. The VTS range is dual gauge, but sells for about $250 and up. You can often get used parts on ebay for much less. However, a used Victor regulator is better than a new single gauge $60 regulator you can buy from most aquarium shops.
You are injecting pressurized CO2, and you want your parts to be high quality and as close to fail safe as possible. Right?
Skyecloud
24-03-2011, 21:01
CO2 will also alter the pH depending on how much you add. This can be hugely beneficial when keeping Discus, neons etc. So, if your water is hard you will need more CO2 to effect the change in pH. Best to use RO water, if your water is hard, as this will reduce the quantity of CO2 required. CO2 injected as a gas is way preferable to using liquid CO2 formulations......works out cheaper in the long run too.
SoCalledPlacid
24-03-2011, 21:13
I have tried every route regarding co2 from paintball cylinders to fire extinguishers to home mad valves an fittings, I ended up spending so much on stuff that leaked and couldn't be used. So I gave in to the price and bought the complete system, (totally worth it) gas bottles doesn't work, paintball gear is messy expensive and leaks. I refill my bottle at vaal triangle fire services "within a day.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.