building a skull cave out of rock pieces

[windfire]

ok so im not satanic or anything but i got to thinking how cool would a cave like the one from peterpan be:p now i need a bit of a hand building it, i'm thinking i'm probably going to need a central colum to support it and then "shelves" branching out so that the outside shel has a structure to build against. so like the top would be built with the suggestion of teeth and then a few broken "teeth" sticking out the gravl. think fairytale pirate cave lol. any ideas what stone to use or methods would be appreciated:bigsmile: oh n pics are y inspiration, love the 2nd one, i found this whole site with photos that had been slightly edited to form faces and animal and human forms, i just had another thought what about a old man face in stone!!!!!

[Lizid]

Wildfire you dont take on simple projects do you?

I think the best way to aproach something like this would be to carve it using polisyrine but then you face a problem of the balls falling off or the piant leeching, I have offten thought about doing something like this (not this) but similar and the I get stuck at the paint. what paint is fish safe?

[windfire]

lol nope its a new year and i got space for a new tank and i'm amped lol. besides the first week at least of varsity is always dead boring with nothing much going on sooooo if i'm at the commune theres no dstv and i'm already almost halfway through my new book, i'm going to need something to keep me busy lol i'm not a fan of using polystyrene as the paint also bothers me, it would be difficult to get it looking exactly like natural stone which is what i would like. @Lizid (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=820) ask azurekoi about what paint he used on his paludrium. i wonder, would that green stuf florist use be an option, it would be easier to carve and once painted would seal and the added bonus is when its wet it gets heavy and sinks..... oh and how does the saying go, Go Big or go Home lol

[Lizid]

yet but that stuff also rots, as far as I know... as for the natural look of the stone I would have to dissagree it can look really realy, but the paint is my only concern...
Otherwise go natural us slate or some thing but I would try and make it a proper cave

[TankMaster]

http://www.wantitall.co.za/Exotic-Environments-Skull-Mountain-Aquarium-Ornament-Medium-9-Inch-by-6-Inch-by-6-Inch__B002LTJH8Y

---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:01 ----------

http://aquariumslightanditem.com/exotic-environments-skull-mountain-aquarium-ornament-medium/

[Lizid]

TM that would be the easest way to do itm but thats not cheap hey

[windfire]

i was going to do a mountain anyway but though it would be more interesting if it looks kinda like a skull. i wonder if its the actual florists oasis or if its the plant matter from the flowers that starts to rot. i think its also inert? i might use those as inspiration thanks Tank master, also true Lizid. i would like to build it though, when its done you feel such a sense of an accomplishment.

[larch]

That's rather expensive for something you can DIY. Easy way to do it is get some pottery clay they use to make pots out of. Make a nice skull sculpture till your happy with it then throw it in the oven for a couple of hours to dry and bob is your sister twice removed.

[windfire]

lol yeah, would that modelling clay from craft shops work? my ma's kiln isn't setup since we moved

[Fishman01]

You can use lava-rock. Break it in smaller pieces and then silicone together. You can build just about anything with it.

[larch]

lol yeah, would that modelling clay from craft shops work? my ma's kiln isn't setup since we moved

I think those contain lead and some other nasties, hence they get glazed. The clay they use for terra-cotta pots should do the job once they have been in the kiln for a couple of hours.

[azurekoi]

Hey @windfire (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=499)... Carve from polystyrene - spray with any non metalic spray paint as base colour - touch up with Dala acrylic craft paint(to create the "rocky" look)... Leave to dry and wash off well...

Thats what I did in my paludarium and no fish health issues - the florist stuff - oasis by name does degenarate after a while...
A friend who saw the tank recently asked me in all amazedment where I got a rock that shape to fit the tank so perfectly....lol,so you can get the right "look" this way...
BTW - most of the ornaments like TM showed is just painted with acrylic craft paint anyway...Get a book on paint tecnique and poly's your rock...

PS:Leave the base as flat polystyrine - you are gonna have to silicone it to the tank bottom..

[TankMaster]

I agree as well. . .

Polystyrene is cheap and easy to work with if you have the right tools for cutting, shaving and sanding. Really an awesome way to cover more area for less $$

[Go-Big]

My son picked up a monkey skull on the farm(karoo) the other day and he put it in his little tank. Actually looks funky. Will post photo later.

[TankMaster]

Just watched a few videos on youtube!!! So easy to make these things from polystyrene!!

Most guys just paint with cement . .yes . .cement

TM

[azurekoi]

Cement slurry is dik easy to work with and you can even sprinkle sand over for an even better look - the only hassle I have with that is that in Freshwater environments the cement will leash calsium compounds into the water that will drasticly increase the hardness and pH levels of your water... To a point where it kills your fish! Have seen this time and again in idiots who dont seal their koi ponds before adding fish

Most people who use the cement trick are reef keepers - because of the high calsium content in their tanks,the leaching process is slowed down drasticly and not an issue...

If you go the cement route - be SURE to seal it off from contact with water by using a clear epoxy...EXPENSIVE though...

[windfire]

yeah lol sounds like it. i have a craft knife which i use for everything would that work to carve polystyrene? ok but heres the thing, i'll probably have to dismantle ths tank at the end of the year soooo would the oasis work for a year? azurekoi wouldnt the paint you use seal the oasis?

[azurekoi]

Craftknife,lighter and a drill with those little wire brushes works a treat to carve poly... Oh and a vacuum cleaner to clean up the bits...lol

As for the oasis - dont know,hey... Youre gonna need to dunk it to get to sink and then the paint wont stick - if it did,imagine it giving out after 6 months or so and releasing all that yucky water into your tank....Eish...Not even sure if oasis is chemically save with fish....

[windfire]

hmmmm yeah, i think i'm going try real stone first and marine silicone. i can work piece by piece and see how it goes. sigh i'm liking the idea of an old mans face more and more

[windfire]

ok so found that oasis is made from phenolic foam, still looking to see if its poisonous.

apparently its non-toxic. so now i think of a way to seal it, and weigh it down. i suppose fishing sinkers are out of the question?

[TankMaster]

My GF owned a florist . .Oasis? Not good. Despite not being able to paint on it. . it is dyed! The green one is hectic to use. Don't search for oasis . .search for floral foam. . .not the green but the cream colored one. These are used for dry arrangements. Non toxic . . .it says on the box. .

But my fear will be the foam degrading with moisture . .after all. .it is for DRY arrangements.

Polystyrene is much cheaper anyway . get polystyrene :)

[windfire]

lol ok so closest place to get polystyrene in pta would be? you guys are wearing me down lol

[TankMaster]

http://www.isolite.co.za/contact.html

[azurekoi]

Yip,used them as well for my poly.... Just dont smoke in their parking area - the security gaurd is dik unfriendly...lol!!!

[dragon8]

smoking huh...yaaa i get that alot too lol

[Zoom]

Yip,used them as well for my poly.... Just dont smoke in their parking area - the security gaurd is dik unfriendly...lol!!!

Geez dude... first of all.... put a big L on your forhead before reading further....

Smoking in a poly factory is more dangerous than smoking at Afrox regassing Complex!! If Poly burns, the chemicals that comes out of their will cause some serious serious lung damage. Which brings me to my next warning....
When you guys melt poly... please do so outside if possible... and ideally where a chemical mask.

[azurekoi]

Ashley,I would never smoke in a poly factory...thats just dumb(almost as dumb as smoking,but we all have our little vices...he,he),but when I am having a smoke(in my own car) as Im driving out of their yard(30 meters away from the building) and the "gaurd" at the boom gate pulls a creepy attitude about me smoking - I take exception... Idiot had me step out of the car to extinguish my cigarette as well + picked up serious racist overtones in the whole unpleassantness...Totally refused to open the boom to let me out if I did not "comply" with his rules...Lets just say it was not what I needed that day...

Sorry windfire - back onto thread topic again - end of rant....

[ryanj252]

I saw this method of getting a plastic grid. And using that spray on foam that hardens after a while...carve it, then cover it with Epoxy, then coat with sand...Sounds so simple.

Has anyone used that method?

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/97329-ambitious-2-tank-system-fish-bridge.html

[windfire]

azurekoi no worries sometimes you just gota say whats on you mind.

thanks ryanj252 isnt that insulation foam? that actually looks like quite a good idea. from what i can see he's stuck real rocks into the foam which looks cool. i wonder if you could just use insulation foam cos thats quite easy to carve aswell. it would be nice to be able to hide my hardware aswell. i suppose one could use plastic netting from the hardware store as the fram?

[ryanj252]

windfire Pleasure buddy. Yes it is insulation foam, i never got to the name. Im sure you could use insulation foam on its own, its much easier to carve than polystyrene. I really wana try it out. It seems so simply and rewarding.

[windfire]

yeah though i see he sealed it with epoxy which could get interesting but i mean that dudes setup is amazing. i like that he scattered sand over the foam so you dont see it and put in the elevated planting spaces, i saw some tigers eye fine gravel that i fell in love with so i think this is going to be the tigers eye tank lol. like make a big block and carve it to suit what you have in mind?

azurekoi take a squiz at this its amazing.

[ryanj252]

Whats the deal with epoxy? isnt it like a quick hardening glue? I wana try it just cos it looks so awesome in his tank. I dont have a design for myself, im going for a Amano style tank. maybe after that, id do rockery...But ive got a good idea for my friends malawi tank.

See example:6358

Also check these 3D backgrounds....just show's if you take your time, carving the cracks and all - no one will know its fake

http://www.aquaterra-intl.com/new.html

[windfire]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/tmulcrone/P1010041-1.jpg

yeah i mean you would never say that is not real rock. truely awe inspiring

[ryanj252]

it sure does look real..if only he change the background.

[azurekoi]

Most guys doing paludarium/vivariums on international Forums seem to prefer this method... One problem I encountered with it was where to source the clear epoxy to get the sand to stick...Still stumped there.
This should actualy be quite easy to work with...Maybe dragon8 has had any luck sourcing the epoxy that he wants to use on a 3D - background...Dude,anything?

The "eggcrate you can get from Marine fish stores or even better lighting shops - also known as "drop ceiling flourescent light diffusers...Just cable tie it together for the superstructure and spray on... QED

[windfire]

yeah maybe black or grey so it isnt so in your face. thanks azurekoi i was going to say it would be awesome for a paludrium. what about using marine varnish? i still got half a tin of that somewhere..... i'll be writing that down about the eggcrate stuff lol. this is going to be a project that takes awhile. thanks for all the suggestions everyone, i think this thread has helped alot ;-D

[ryanj252]

azurekoi - U used polystyrene and cement for your method hey? what cement did you use?

[azurekoi]

azurekoi - U used polystyrene and cement for your method hey? what cement did you use?

???? nope - used polystirene and spray paint - touched up with Dala Acrylic craft paint....no cement...

[ryanj252]

Ok...there are so many guys that used cement on there BG. When inserted it raised the pH quickly, because the cement leeched lime. Some say you should soak the BG for a week or two before adding it.

Hearing things like that just makes a guy nervous, i used to have a pH of 9 in my tank when keeping platties. Theyd die in a week. Until i found out, i had the wrong rocks, coral sand, and was using a ld tooth brush that still had toothpaste in the corners...so i dont want end up in that street again.

[dragon8]

hi guys

i did find the epoxy, though its very expensive(relative i guess) and i cant find it in clear, only found it in black and white. i found clear epoxy but it was not food grade and so not safe for our fish...

i carved and burned into shape that polystuff and used white cement mixed with sand to give it a rock like appearance which looked really good but then was delayed because i couldn't find the clear food grade epoxy.

so i change my plan i'm waiting for payday and then i'm buying the R1300 per 5lt black epoxy and will used sand and gravel in the black epoxy to make it look rock like...will let you know how it turns out...

the guyazurekoi refered me to who has this epoxy assured me that its food grade and that two days after application and after two washes it will be safe. i trusted him because he was one of the few people who knew what i was asking for...

i worked out several other things to use that epoxy for but i don't want to spill all the beans just yet:blink1:

will update you guys soon
have a super day

[ryanj252]

dragon8 - NIce man. I look forward to seeing it. Might even pop in after work, as i work not far from you. Let us know how it goes step by step with pics hey.

[dragon8]

gimme a few short weeks and you may come and see:bigsmile:

[windfire]

so by the looks of it i got two options, use polystyrene or use real rock and marine silicone. i'll have to think about the pro's and cons of each now

[dragon8]

windfire hello...it might be a good idea for phone some epoxy type places in jhb...you have more such industries there

i was talking to(negociating) the lab guys at Dekro(dont mean to advertise) and they were working out if they could maybe perhaps possibly "make" a clear untinted epoxy that is food grade...they were very helpful but i lost patience and am gonna go with the black one...

so ask around...dont give up...am sure you will find it...i don't think marine silicone is the long term answer...
fire

[dragon8]

ok guys...this thread got me excited to complete this 3d background so i went and bought that black epoxy at the koi shop...

the dude at the shop showed me the green epoxy paint sealer they used on one of their ponds there and it looked like thick gloss paint, so to be sure that it doesn't shine too much i will mix sand into it when i paint it on...

so i have a two huge pieces of styrofoam, one is halfway carved, must carve out and shape the other, then cut out piping gutters(want a jet just above the gravel at opposite side of tank hidden to disturb the gravel surface during the day...cleaner), then cement it as one piece in the tank(1.3m recently put together), and then epoxy the black sand mix over...few days to dry...

K @ K nervous and excited:sick:

will post pics and let you know how it works out...
oh, its called flowcrete(will study label and give details later...at work already) they use it to seal ponds and thats why i can't find this one in clear...because its paint!!!

have a super day guys:bigsmile:

ps.thank you azurekoi for recommending the koi people...

[ryanj252]

Dont you think its safer to bond the polystyrene with aquarium sealer than with cement? Ive been told the cement releases lime into the water that raises the pH

[dragon8]

yes you right...though the cement will not be in contact with the water at all just like in the koi pond which is completely sealed...

there will be no exposed cement, the cement bonds well to the polystyrene and the sealer bonds well to the cement

[ryanj252]

OK. hope it works. You could also instead coat your poly with epoxy then role it around in a box of sand and crushed gravel. Will look super real! No cement...

[dragon8]

erm...the CAVE i'm building is about 80cm long...70cm high and about 65cm wide to fit in my 1.3m...so no rolling lol

also i found painting the poly didn't work well at all..i did alot of research online as to how others do it...and downloaded a few "how to" youtube vids(can burn you a dvd) and this ways seemed best...

also from my previous experiment i found that the cement "builds" the rock shape nicely

[ryanj252]

how are you going to apply the epoxy/sand? send me the link please. Coating the epoxy would give if the "camps bay rock" type of texture. But i wana see your results. its still gona be awesome

[azurekoi]

ps.thank you azurekoi for recommending the koi people...

Pleasure dragon8 - Now that you have a koi pond seems to be lurking in your future - stick with Julian - He's a good oke and longstanding mate of mine...He wont do you wrong...

[dragon8]

:bigsmile:will do...

burnt that poly by the by....looks good....am taking series photos

must buy piping and pumps for hidden detail still, but will give some cement to to cave this week still...