View Full Version : Wipeout!!!!!
azurekoi
19-10-2010, 09:28
Tough keeping fish some times.....REALY tough to write this thru tear blurred eyes....
As a one man koi opperation,i am in the habit of takig every 2nd Monday off - just to rest and do the "normal" life thing....Yesterday,was such a day....Wish I hadn't....
Came in to work this morning,unlocked the nursery and walkedover to my ponds to feed.....The HORROR of seeing EVERY single fish in(luckily....that word leaves a bad taste in my mouth,but yeah,luckily...) my main show pond DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anger-rage-confusion-intense heartbreak-self incrimination: All these rushed thru me as I @ first just walked away to be alone....cup of cofee later and a coupla chain smoked cigarettes later - returned to pond and summoned the nursery staff to find out what was done to pond in my absence....Topped up with bloody tap water!!!! The borehole packed up yesterday,so tapwater it is.....Surprising thing is that the volume topped up from where the levels where to where it is now,I have calculated as little as 5 or 6% new,raw tapwater was added.....
Was with a sense of futility that I did the water tests - came up as perfect water conditions as always... Then the phonecalls start - 2 clients of mine in same area as me(Montana park) with total wipeouts...One dechlorinated and did a 25% waterchange,the other topped up says maybe 10% evaporation loss - no dechlorinator.... So here's a warning to anyone living in the Montana area - tap water seems to be unsafe(even if dechlorinated...) as of late Sunday and yesterday....
Watersamples will go to the CSIR later today.....In the mean time,excuse me for not being my witty self - One of the Hanna - Shusui's in there was a fry from a spawning I did 4 years ago.....ate from my hand...
Sorry to hear about your loss, that really sucks
Dam thats hectic. Sorry for the loss.
azurekoi
19-10-2010, 09:55
Thanx guys.....helps a bit,but REALY down today..... just found out that a 4000 liter display pond in the cycad display area got wiped out too....no great fish in there like the main pond,but still......
sorry for ur losses man.. but keep us posted about the watersample test results please..
How horrible, so sorry for your loss.
TankMaster
19-10-2010, 10:33
Damn . . .that's bad :(
really sorry for your losses, its heartbreaking to lose a single fish, i cant in anyway imagine what you must be going through.
I am sorry to hear of your losses, having a koi pond myself I can understand somewhat. How frustrating that it was the tap water itself!
mydummyname
19-10-2010, 11:40
i feel your pain dude...
:(
Sorry to hear it, never easy dealing with loss... hope you feel better soon.
azurekoi
19-10-2010, 12:42
Thanx everyone.....Decided I'm gonna get SMASHED tonight and howl my frustration @ the moon....
Brain has been working overtime about the "why?" behind this..... Now Hartebeespoort dam(the town around the dam) has been without household water for something like 3 or 4 days - their water was switched back on yesterday some time... wonder if this could have something to do with it? But speculating at this point just a way to keep my mind off what happened....
Pistolshrimp
19-10-2010, 13:20
damn my condolences dude, your tapwater must really bad, what do you guys drink?
azurekoi
19-10-2010, 13:43
@ Pistolshrimp:Tonight -> Alcohol,and copious amounts of it....
(Never drink tap water....fish spawn in it....yuck)
That really sucks!! I am also very carefull about our water these days, just do not feel safe.
dangerousd
19-10-2010, 17:56
Sorry to hear dude.... I lost all my koi last year when I was doing maintenance on my koi pond... NOT funny / so sad!
Sorry to hear that man. Such a pity.
Condolences, friend, sorry to hear all that... we all await the tap water test results, seems like a significant problem, definitely something to be aware of.
this is sad, sorry dude. hope you get to the root of this.
Eish! Condolences dude, and thanx for the "Heads Up" something all of us in Pretoria to take note of.
Hi Azurekoi.
Sorry to read about you loss. Please keep us posted as to what the results are from the CSIR.
My question is: If there is a problem with the water from the municipality, is there any recourse one can take to get reimbursed for ones losses?
regards
Vince
azurekoi
20-10-2010, 14:22
Vince.....that's a pipe dream mate...they will NEVER do that....Just think my loss was R38 000(retail value)....Pretoria's cash strapped minucipal council not gonna liste to our woes....
Spoke to owner's of LPS near me - same problems all over Montana - ponds and aquariums....total WIPEOUTS!!! Had 3 more clients experience the same heartache today alone....2 dechlorinated ; 1 didn't....
I AM SO ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In an ideal world...
Seriously though, I wonder if there is any concern for human ingestion... very worrying! Apart from Chlorine, there could be other issues i.e. Fluoride which if they still add this to our water could be potentially fatal to all if they have got the dosage wrong...
Vince
stormbringer101
20-10-2010, 15:32
my condolences ,could you not hook up a huge R.O water system from the waterboy for all of your ponds .not sure of the details for koi but ive been running my jardini arowanas tank on R.O WATER for close to a year now and havent bought anti chlor in ages and he is healthy and growing like a mtf.
azurekoi
20-10-2010, 15:34
@ Scaly: Think that if this was affecting humans,there would long ago have been a lot of people adversely affected by now - this has been going on for 4 days now.... + Client in Lynwood just called - same thing....total loss of all koi in pond...
Goodness! That is terrible! Condolences... I'm in Garsfontein and did a huge w/c with dechlor on my guppy fry tank yesterday and all is well so far. Please keep us updated on the tests.
azurekoi
20-10-2010, 16:29
@ stormbringer 101 : not realy feasible or needed @ my store generally - usual weekly waterchanges(total of + - 20 000liters) is done with borehole water - just that both pumps have been down on that specific day.... Just my luck!!!
Cost of creating 20 000 liters of RO per week from Municipal water would bankrupt me.... + personal moral issues about creating so much waste water....
stormbringer101
20-10-2010, 16:52
@ stormbringer 101 : not realy feasible or needed @ my store generally - usual weekly waterchanges(total of + - 20 000liters) is done with borehole water - just that both pumps have been down on that specific day.... Just my luck!!!
Cost of creating 20 000 liters of RO per week from Municipal water would bankrupt me.... + personal moral issues about creating so much waste water....
ok that makes sense fro a cost factor.....am i missing something hear..where is the waste in producing r.o water or is it just on big r.o systems that there is waste
azurekoi
20-10-2010, 16:57
Put a bucket under that little run off pipe that usualy gets plmbed down the drain,and check how much water gets wasted to make just one liter of pure water....the membrane only let's pure H20 thru - other stuff gets flushed to waste - differs from unit to unit,but some 6 stagers can waste as much as 6 liters to make just one liter of pure water...
stormbringer101
20-10-2010, 17:16
Put a bucket under that little run off pipe that usualy gets plmbed down the drain,and check how much water gets wasted to make just one liter of pure water....the membrane only let's pure H20 thru - other stuff gets flushed to waste - differs from unit to unit,but some 6 stagers can waste as much as 6 liters to make just one liter of pure water...
wow .cant say ive ever seen a run of pipe on mine but I will deff check tonight and just plumb it into the rain water res for watering ....jeez 6l x100 l a day is 600l wasted thats crazy thank s for the info
"Cost of creating 20 000 liters of RO per week from Municipal water would bankrupt me.... + personal moral issues about creating so much waste water...."
@ Azurekoi Albeit my RO operation is very small, I do use the run off in my garden...could not stand to see it run down the drain.
azurekoi
21-10-2010, 15:15
Good on you Scaly....nothing wrong with that water for garden purposes at all...
An update on the water to the CSIR bit - decided not to do it due to the financial side of it(Hell,lost enough with this already) - What cost me R400 a few years back they want roughly 6 times that,so all I did was mass SMS my whole customer list and told them not to do waterchanges for the forseeable future, My "sister LPS is running some experiments to see whazzup - seems that as of today with double doses of antichlor,fish are survivng in tap water again,but not very happy about it...
Had some trouble with deaths and water changes some weeks back.
My kuhli loaches started dying first after a few minutes and then my endlers which is rather tough little buggers.
Had no idea what was happening so after chucking loads of tetra dechlor they settled again.
Not sure its the same thing but sounds like it if the fish survive after you double the dechlor.
IS this effecting other fishes or only koi?
azurekoi
27-10-2010, 08:18
Hi Stormer....Nope - all fish in the Montana area of Pretoria...Guy who runs our nursery lost his whole Malawi tank yesterday...Dechlored as per usual,did 25% waterchange and BOOM --> All fish dead within minutes.... Huge Copadichromis borleyii's,4 x Synodontis njasea and some awesome wildcaught aurora's....Dude's realy down - says he's gonna pack up fishkeeping....
Have decided to say bugger the cost....we are sending a water sample to the CSIR later today....This mystery NEEDS to be solved...
Please keep us updated on the results.
azurekoi sorry to hear about your losses.
There are other water labs to do the water test , and you can specify which test to conduct, thereby reducing the cost
azurekoi
27-10-2010, 10:01
Thanx Khalid --> Spoke to a woman @ CSIR who runs the water testing department(She's a fishkeeper herself), Me and the other LPS's in the area all agree that it must be a chlorine problem,but gonna test for flouride and some heavy metals too... Test will take a week to 10 days,so in the mean time(for any of you living North of the Magaliesberg mountain in Pretoria) - small waterchanges and double or triple the anti chlor... The guys from Pet City(@ Mods: Guess this o.k mentioning them as I am in no way affiliated to them) - pre treat their water for 5 days and are experiencing no losses....Wonderboom has lost some fish,but now up the dosage of anti chlor and losses are less.... All of us selling fish in the area are inundated by clients losing fis like crazy --> (+ getting real sick of clients playing the blame game with us) . Had client walk in yesterday after losing his whole pond: Wanted to get physical with me - said I killed his fish by selling him sick fish....Calmed him down and started asking questions... Apparently he bought some koi from my shop 1.5 years ago(before I took over) and now want's "compensation" - The gall and misinformation of some fish keepers astounds me some time!!!
Hi azurekoi. In my area it seems as if the water is also affected. I changed 30% water in my tanks on Friday and had a strange w.end with the Discus. They all had clamped fins and were very jumpy and not eating. On monday I filled my Jojo with water, put new charcoal in the filter and ran it till 22h00 last night. Changed the water and all are fine again today. It would be impossible for you with your volume,but charcoal pre filtering is the only cheap and sure way to prevent this from happening. It might be some toxin in the water?
azurekoi
27-10-2010, 12:48
Thanx Marco for adding this.... seems like you guys on the other side of the mountain are also affected,if to a lesser degree...All of the LPS's this side agree that storage and pretreatment of water is esential now....Anyone in Jhb got problems?
No problems here in Randburg. Did my usual water change +dechlor and all fish still happy and alive.
Don't know about other people in this area though...
Did big water changes ... but must admit the water out the tap is not pleasant to drink, I still chuck my water through the counter filter before it hits my tanks - don't do any other water treatment.
http://www.f-fish.net/images-cabinet/waterfilter.png
All good at this stage.
Later Ferdie
This is why I only use RO on my tanks. IMO everyone should invest in a RO unit. Not really a practicle solution to a pond though. You can never be sure about whats coming out that tap. I test my TDS weekly. Some weeks it's 0, the next week it is sitting at like 15? Just as I want to service the unit drops back down too 0. I believe this is because of the changes in water quality coming out the tap. With out the RO unit, who knows what I would have been throwing in my tank.
Hi discusguy. Just be sure to remineralise your RO water. If not you can easily land with an acid fall. One should also make sure to feed high quality food when using lots of RO water. The 'flat' water contains minimal to zero minerals for the fish to utilize, hence they suffer mineral deficiencies. Rgds, Marco
Hi discusguy. Just be sure to remineralise your RO water. If not you can easily land with an acid fall. One should also make sure to feed high quality food when using lots of RO water. The 'flat' water contains minimal to zero minerals for the fish to utilize, hence they suffer mineral deficiencies. Rgds, Marco
Good point Marco
I use a product made by tropic marine called pro discus mineral.
Its sad that things are going like this, but yes, I agree with you that sadly, at the rate things are declining, pretty soon we will have to switch to RO to be safe. I use it with the breeding pairs but not with the rest, but now that even gets risky!
No problem in Centurion so far. I did a 50% last night after metro treatment on my Discus tank adding the noraml Tetra dechlor.
All still seems healthy this morning. Fins high and eating well.
No problem with the water from my side, that is down south.
We have a relay substation about 5 km away in Eikenhoff that automatically chlorinates the water.
Some bedtime reading
Chlorine in Drinking-water -Background document for development of [online]. (2003) [Accessed 28 October 2010]. Available from: <http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chlorine.pdf>.
My parents stay in Magalieskruin, northern side of Pretoria, and since the water supply was changed to water from the Roodeplaat dam area a few years ago they stopped drinking the water because of the smell and taste.
This weekend while visiting our three year old wanted to swim and while filling her inflatable swimming pool you could actual smell the chorilne and other chemicals, it tasted even worse.
So sorry to hear of your huge loss :(
There is only one State and that is the FREEstate. Bethlehem's local dam water come from Katsedam in Lesotho, the outfall of the tunnel is about 20km from Bethlehem. Fresh Clean WATER.
The water coming out of the tap is not that bad, just a few chemicals.
Tested the pH in the tap water last night 7. and our tank is also 7. Still uses dechlorinator.
Sorry for your losses.
azurekoi
28-10-2010, 16:24
Thanx Rickus...Dam(pun intended),but you are lucky to get water from such an unpoluted source....lucky,lucky,lucky....But then again,that place gets MIGHTY cold in winter....
Yeah,ALWAYS dechlorinate...If I had 10c for all the clients thru the years who say: " Ja,boet,I never worry with that and my pond/tank is fine...." And then BOOM - one day it all goes pear shaped.... Water is a very scarce resource in our country(think we are the 7th most water poor country in the world) and yes,to get potable drinking water,it needs to be treated to hell and gone with chemicals to make it "safe" for human consumption....pity it's not so cool for our fish though....
i know that fish are a lot more sensitive than we are, but it just makes you wonder about all the rubbish we put in our bodies as well as our children when drinking "clean" tap water.
azurekoi any updates on the water results?
azurekoi
09-11-2010, 11:10
Nope Khalid - shouls have them some time later this week....CSIR not known for the speed of their service...lol
To add to this, I live in Centurion and I did an untreated water change for both my tanks last week with no ill effect.
My parents stay in Sinoville, right next door to Montana and I nearly did an untreated water change on my Loach tank on Sunday. Then they told me that my aunt's entire pond was wiped out in a matter of an hour, and a friend's tanks were all wiped out in the same manner. So I filled a bucket and there is definitely an insanely high amount of chlorine in the water, you can smell it much more than usual. Left the bucket to mature for a day or two and it must have been okay because I haven't gotten a phonecall saying that my fish are all dead...
@ Azurekoi I know this is a very old thread, but did you ever found out what poisoned your fish? Always interesting to keep in mind for the future if things go wrong again.
azurekoi
14-07-2011, 12:49
Yup - eventualy took some water to the CSIR and was helped by 2 fishkeepers themselves... Chlorine 11 times usual and chloramine lvls through the roof as well... Took a drive to Roodeplaat dam on a off day and talked my way into the water treatment centre there - Guy there explained it was due to a major algeabloom that they added so much more...
Lotsa fishkeepers from all disciplines in the hobby lost a lot of fish... :(
Lotsa fishkeepers from all disciplines in the hobby lost a lot of fish... :(
sue their @$$es
I'm sure there's nothing you can really sue them for, the water was still fit for human consumption. If, however, there's some legislation dictating the legal levels of chlorine and chloramine, then you might have some grounds to sue
I'm sure there's nothing you can really sue them for, then you might have some grounds to sue
Animal cruelty perhaps, sue for damages caused? I know it just seems so unfair that we invest in so much time and effort just to lose it due to lack of communication from the
treatment centers.
Being household contents, you could possibly make an insurance claim if you have a good enough broker, but legal action is going to be slow and costly
Thanks Asurekoi.
I cannot believe that that much chlorine can be safe for any lifeform including humans. You might not die from it, but it must have some ill effects.
I am sure there was probably a lot of misterous illnesses during that time. Just nobody new what was wrong with them or what have caused it.
Thought i would share this would you guys seeing as i suffered the same problem some time ago.
The chemical that killed your fish was Chloramine, We have a friend that owns a water treatment business and is sub-contracted by the municipality,
He told us when they repair/upgrade any part of the system they have to purge it with a strong disinfectant that contains 90% chloramine
And most dechlorinators only remove chlorine and you need to double dose for removing chloramine.
A method i can recommend is a water purifier i have one linked to a auto topup and touch wood been going strong for quite sometime,
Or before you fill up with hose add dechlorinator first so it forms a protective layer around the gills
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