seachem flourite

[spock rider]

Hi prof

I am looking for a quality subsrate, for my planted aquarium to be....

Found seachem flourite, which seems to be very good, went onto to their website and on the area calculator for standard 5foot and 5cm deep, I need six 7kg bags. At R275 a bag!!!!!!!!!! Animal Knigdom, Hillfox.


Do you know of a cheper supplier?
Do you know of an alternative product?
Do you know of a DIY solution?
Any advice?
thanks

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Howzit Cobus,

The question you pose is not so simple to answer in a short reply, but I will try. I am also expressing my personal opinion about substrates here and I know that there are many different views on the matter, so I am sure that there may also be different ways of doing this.

Firstly, the price of this medium does not justify your buying it in my opinion. There definitely are alternatives but these are very heavily influenced by the types of plants that you want to plant. Having said that you must realize that even if you were to have an expensive substrate such as this flourite, you would still have to use additional fertilizer to the water as well. If you want to grow fast growing plants, with high light, then these plants will get most of their food from the fertlizer that is dissolved in the water and not from the substrate. However, slower growing plants in particularly Cryptocorynes actually need an enriched medium.

So, if you want to grow fast growing plants my advice would be to use just an inert gravel and add nails (yes you heard right, nails! 2.5 cm normal iron nails that will then rust in the medium, but they are perfectly safe to use after having given them a good wash) to the medium for iron enrichment. Feed the plants with the dissolved ferts and this will be perfectly adequate. I use this approach in my large display tank in which I grow a lot of sword plants which really grow quickly.

If you want to grow crypts you need to enrich the medium. Clay balls can be used and you can make these yourself from any red clay, which is red because of its iron content. There are some nice red soils outside of Johannesburg which would work quite well for this. The clay balls are then covered with inert gravel.

I have also seen persons advising the use of composts or rose/shrub growing soils as media under a gravel layer. These certainly will be of benefit for the crypts, but because these type of mixes vary so much, it is almost impossible to advise which brand may be suitable. If the compost has for example been enriched with chicken manure which is very commonly the case, they cannot be used in an aquarium because chicken manure is so nitrogen rich and because of the bacteria it contains. What would work is a well decomposed compost with some organic matter and some course sand which is well drained and will therefore allow some water movement through it. The compost should also not contain a lot of bark as this is inert and does not add any nutritive value to the compost. However this compost must always be covered with a layer of gravel of at least 2.5 cm and if you have burrowing fishes this will be problem.

I do not think you are going to get the flourite much cheaper from an alternative supplier, perhaps Henk can advise here, but from what I know this stuff just is expensive, so my advice is to proceed as described above.

I am sure that there are also others recommendations that others may wish to make, so let us perhaps also hear what others have to say.

Kind regards,

Dirk

[Big G]

I think there are a lot of people on here including myself, who use standard Pool Filter Sand from the likes of Builders warehouse... Its Silica, so its inert, and also seems to be a fair trade between Fine Gravel and Sand.

I've had no problem with my plants rooting in it, and the only plants that have struggled are my small amazons, I think this may partly be due to the depth of my tank as well tho? Its 60cm, and I'm sure I read something about the smaller amazons not liking tanks deeper than 50cm?

Anyhow, as you may have guessed, I'm no expert when it comes to plants, but I'm very happy with the sand! Hope it helps even if its only a bit!

Cheers
BIg G!

[Rory]

As seachem fluorite goes those prices are pretty good.

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Hi BigG,

I agree fully about the fine pool filter sand. I am partcularly in favour of using it because Corydoras catfish do so well if you use it. Their barbels are often cut off by coarser gravel but they keep their full beards with fine pool sand.

If your tank is 60 cm deep the light intensity at that depth is just simply so reduced that the small amazons will battle, but big Amazons with leaves that grow to the surface will do well.

Kind regards,

Dirk

[Philfarm]

I personally believe whole heatedly in an enriched substrate, I have tried the plain silica method and it does work really well for less demanding plants like vallis and swords.. but if you are trying to grow healthy, moderate to difficult plants an enriched substrate is alot less admin!!

I use normal black garden soil mixed with sierra pot mix, latterite clay balls, nails, cactus pot mix, some trace elements and some other ingredients I cant remember topped off with a fair amount of natural river sand.. it works really well in my opinion, I dont dose my tank with ferts, my plants get the majority of their nutrients from the substrate:smile1:

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Hi Phil,

I think we agree pretty well on the substrates. Difficult plants definitely need them. With easier plants you can go with silica sand and water ferts.

Can you perhaps recommend where to get these clay balls and this sierra pot mix as well as the cactus pot mix, so that others can perhaps buy them. Which supplier did you get these from?

Were did these substrates consist of, I mean were they largely compost or was there some gravel and sand in them?

Kind regards,

Dirk

[Philfarm]

The latterite i got from another forum member but the clay balls i bought from jasons amazon trading in brackenfell, the sierra pot mix you can get at panorama pet shop its also a good idea to get those plant food tablets that are supposed to last 7years for where the large plants go. The cactus mix you should be able to get at any nursery but make sure it doesnt have manure or dangerous chemicals in it as lots do! As for the soil, i would stay away from compost other wise you will get anerobic spots in the substrate causing bubbles of gas that are harmfull to fish and plant roots, i used rich black top soil that was well sifted to get rid of roots and anything els that could rot... Not sure if thats what you meant dirk but hope this helps!

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for this information, it is very good to have. I was wondering what this sierra pot mix was, but I think I now know. Is it not "Sera" that you are referring to, they also sell fish food etc.? Those food tablets also make a lot of sense.

I also fully agree about the cactus mix, i.e. any so-called composted mix can contain lots of nasties so this is actually the component that one has to be super careful with. I fully agree about those anaerobic spots that you refer to.

On my property, I have a dark brown decomposed granite type soil, in which my proteas grow very well. I also does not contain any organic matter such as roots etc, so this sort of soil should be fine, I think.

This brings me to another issue. One of aspects that you have touched on is circulation through the substrate. This is just about impossible to achieve if you put layers of soil and gravel in an aquarium, but a friend of mine told me a number of years ago that he used to rig up his tank with undergravel filter panels beneath the gravel. He then put his gravel including clay balls and other substrates on top of these undergravel filter panels and planted his plants on top of the whole lot. Then he did NOT use a powerhead to draw water into the gravel to induce movement into the gravel, but instead extended the normal outlet of the undergravel filter to slightly higher than the water level. Using a small airline pipe he would then feed a very low trickle of water off a canister filter into the gravel bed, causing a very slow water movement through the gravel (most of the water from the canister filter was jetted out into the water in the tank in the usual fashion). He said that this worked very well, as it also effectively introduced heat into the root bed of the plants as well. I have not tried this, but I might just be tempted to try this out some time, just a thought.

Kind regards,

Dirk

[Philfarm]

Oops i must have the names mixed up then, the mix comes in a yellow pot with a green lid! The airation of the substrate was my biggest problem but the solution turned out to be blindingly obvious and easy, "mts" trumpet snails they do a wonderful job!

[spock rider]

hi everyone, what I thought was going to simplify, has now really got my grey matter ticking!

so can I overdo adding nails?

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Hi Cobus,

Yes, I would add nails, but I would also consider Phil's option of the Sera pot mix, I don't think you can go wrong there, perhaps of those plant food tablets may also be a good idea. These things cannot be as expensive as the Seachem substrate?

Kind regards,

Dirk

[spock rider]

If i went for the option of adding nails, then how many for a standard 5 foot?

[Philfarm]

A hand full at most if you add too much they will oxidise faster than your plants can handle and you will get algae problems, but try concentrate them to where your swords are going to be most Echinodoras's will thank you!

[spock rider]

thanks

please advise which plants I can get to grow onto my fibreglass background, and how to attach them.

See "spock rider" post under new members for pic of the background.

[Philfarm]

thanks

please advise which plants I can get to grow onto my fibreglass background, and how to attach them.

See "spock rider" post under new members for pic of the background.

None that will survive your fish mate, sorry!:p

otherwise java fern, javamoss or anubias would do ok attached to that wall and Id suggest a stapler for getting them on...

[spock rider]

thanks, tank is empty, planning to keep the king and some neons and corys maybe.

[Zoom]

This was a very interesting read.

Prof. Dirk... you touch on a few aspects that intrigued me. I recently changed over to the very fine Silica Sand, and put in a Sera substrate mix underneath the substrate... as discussed earlier with Phil.
I have also been dosing with Sera Flourish fertilizer... (sadly only at half the recommended dosage, because of the cost implications!)... and i have seen a HUGE diffrence in the plant growth, as well as the plant health.

My question is this... according to the instructions on the Sera pot, the substrate needs to be replaced every 8 to 10 months depending on how heavy the tank is planted. Now this poses a headache, because basically now I have to CHANGE my substrate every 10 months, because there is no way I am going to be able to seperate the silica sand from the now exhausted Sera fertilizer. Flourite is very expensive, and as you have mentioned, possibly not worth what you get in the end. I do not want to go the Rose/Shrub mix route, as I have read your cautions in other threads.

Would your Prof. Dirks drops be sufficient for a medium planted tank when the Sera fertilizer is exhausted?

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Yes Zoom,

My new drops are showing such positive results that I can safely say that we will be able to replace your Sera fertilizer.

The Stig is preparing a few more experiments and then we will be ready to show you the results of how this really can work.....

Watch this space......

Kind regards,

Dirk