Water preparation question

[Laure]

Hi guys

I posted this in another forum, but I'll put it up here too:

I have a question around containers for water preparation. Marko sells these large black garbage bins (Big Jim 120l @ R209) and then a bigger container (probably 200l @ R399.00 and it's got wheels!). Both are black plastic. Are they safe to use? I will be putting a submersible heater with thermostat in the bottom set to 28 degrees C and adding chlorine remover. Also an air stone conencted to an external air pump. My tap water is very soft (kH 2.4), but with a high ph of 8.5 due to the addition of lime. I will change the pH to 6.8 using a tiny little bit of hydrochloric acid and a reliable ph meter. I might have to bump up the kH to 4 at some point, but for now my method is very stable as I've been using this in a smaller container for a while now. I just want a bigger container, that's all.

[Rowland]

Not sure about the safety of the plastic Laure, but I think you are wasting money on the chlorine remover. Chlorine tends to evaporate after about 24 hours. This can be sped up by agitating the water as you suggest with your air pump. Also a bit concerned around the use of pool acid. How long does the water stand before use?

[Laure]

Water will stand for probably 48 hours. Don't worry about the HCL, I spoke to a number of experienced people on many forums. I am more concerned about the plastic and it's safety. What do you guys use for storing water? I need to store around 120 to 200 litres in a single container.

[carl p]

just rinse the damn new container, trial and error is the best way of learning......

[Laure]

It will be a big error if i poison my fish...

I'd rather err on the side of caution. Also spending 400 bucks on a container only to find out it is not suitable is a bit rough on the pocket these days. Surely, with all the discus keepers on thi forum, there must be somebody who does large frequent water changes. Come on - where do you get your 200l containers?

[Singularity]

I dont think there will be any problems once you have rinsed them well, i use jojo tanks, after the first couple of fills the water even had that new plastic taste/smell but i didnt have any problems. I would just use a powerhead with an air intake to agitate and earate the water.

[Slummies]

is this for storage or holding?

[Scaly]

Hi there

I have 3 x Black drums that are interconnected that i use for my water prep. I will post pics. They work just fine. Just wash all the oil off they use to stop he drums sticking to the moulds.

I have a heater in each, and corner filter. I have started using RO water in 2 of them, so I do not add chemicals any more. The third is just water I run through the carbon that I add to the tanks to replace some minerals the RO removes.

DO NOT let the water level drop below the heater while it is on...the drum will melt!

If i get time i will post some pics tonight. I have been using these since Oct last year without any ill effects.

[Rowland]

Hi Laure

Coming back to the acid...how many litres are you going to prepare and how many litres does your tank hold?

[Altum]

Fish-safe containers!?
I had the same issue, when I grew out, bred discus semi-commercially in my first hatcheries in PE.

Fortunately my family own butcheries, and associated businesses....

Relevance?
Spices, sausage skins etc are bulkstored in them.
Soft-drink syrups are too.
They require little pretreatment, if any.

some leads:
Phone crown national, freddy hirsch, coca cola, bkb and ask if available.
OR if they can point you to their supplier.

Recognizable in grey, black, white, green, blue - with open-strapped top, or std. 25L drum threaded cap.

Your budget is sufficient to get the right stuff first time!

Majority of black garbage bin/containers have significant recycled portion and pigments, and may leach compounds cumulatively detrimental to Discus.

Potable = drinkable quality water...
Discus need water even better than that, if they must attain health they deserve.

Which part of PE are you from?
I have repeatedly had many of my discus THRIVE in Malabar, Newton Park, Mill Park, Uitenhage, Walmer, ....

pm me for a PE supplier of MANY suitable containers, if only to keep this thread on track.

HTH
Liaquat

[Laure]

Hi Laure

Coming back to the acid...how many litres are you going to prepare and how many litres does your tank hold?

I have a 300l tank so I need to be able to do a 50% water change if needed. I have 1 smaller 30l bucket. So if I buy the 120l Big Jim garbage bin from Makro then I'd have 150l for such an emergency if and when needed.

But normally I would do 100l every Saturday (+-30% of tank volume)
I prepare the water after the water change, so it stands for about a week. Should be enough to stabilize the ph and get the chlorine out through agitation.

I am thinking of possibly 2x25% changes per week (75l each), but I don;t have a high bioload so that might be overkill.

Altum - pm sent

[Laure]

After some research I found the guys in Durban that manufacture the Big Jim range of products. It is made from polypropylene. From wikipedia:

Since polypropylene is resistant to fatigue, most plastic living hinges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_hinge), such as those on flip-top bottles, are made from this material. However, it is important to ensure that chain molecules are oriented across the hinge to maximise strength.
Very thin sheets of polypropylene are used as a dielectric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric) within certain high performance pulse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_power) and low loss RF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency) capacitors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitors).
Many plastic items for medical or laboratory use can be made from polypropylene because it can withstand the heat in an autoclave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclave). Its heat resistance also enables it to be used as the manufacturing material of consumer-grade kettles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettle). Food containers made from it will not melt in the dishwasher, and do not melt during industrial hot filling processes. For this reason, most plastic tubs for dairy products are polypropylene sealed with aluminium foil (both heat-resistant materials). After the product has cooled, the tubs are often given lids made of a less heat-resistant material, such as LDPE or polystyrene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene). Such containers provide a good hands-on example of the difference in modulus, since the rubbery (softer, more flexible) feeling of LDPE with respect to PP of the same thickness is readily apparent. Rugged, translucent, reusable plastic containers made in a wide variety of shapes and sizes for consumers from various companies such as Rubbermaid and Sterilite are commonly made of polypropylene, although the lids are often made of somewhat more flexible LDPE so they can snap on to the container to close it. Polypropylene can also be made into disposable bottles to contain liquid, powdered or similar consumer products, although HDPE and polyethylene terephthalate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate) are commonly also used to make bottles. Plastic pails, car batteries, wastebaskets, cooler containers, dishes and pitchers are often made of polypropylene or HDPE, both of which commonly have rather similar appearance, feel, and properties at ambient temperature.

[Laure]

Here's some more info from the web:

http://trusted.md/blog/vreni_gurd/2007/03/29/plastic_water_bottles

"Plastic water bottles are very convenient for carting water around when we are on the go, as they don't break if we drop them. However, it is worth paying attention to the type of plastic your water bottle is made of, to ensure that the chemicals in the plastic do not leach into the water. If you taste plastic, you are drinking it, so get yourself another bottle.

To be certain that you are choosing a bottle that does not leach, check the recycling symbol on your bottle. If it is a #2 HDPE (high density polyethylene), or a #4 LDPE (low density polyethylene), or a #5 PP (polypropylene), your bottle is fine."

And then some more:

http://www.safetanks.com/plastics.html