Hang On Filters + Sump

[JesseG]

Hey Guys/Gals,

Okay, first keep in mind that i'm clueless when it comes to sumps and cannisters and the likes...but i was talking to my brother in law last night, and we were thinking of using 2 hang on filters and a 200l tank, divided into three, for filter media, as this is the norm, as a sump...

Now, 1 hang on filter hangs on the sump tank with a hose attached to it to syphon the water from the main tank to the sump and then it goes through the 3 stage filtration process, then a hose in the last chamber is connected to the second hang on filter which is hung on the main tank and the water flows back into the main tank...

Can anyone foresee any major problems that we may come across? any advice is welcome...

[Linxie]

hmmm that's such an interesting idea JesseG! May I ask why you're wanting to do it this way? (with the hang on filters instead of a pump)

[JesseG]

Hmmm, i have two hang on filters at the moment, so i'm guessing, converting them into a big filter would be good, do you foresee any problems? also, the filtration process it taking place once with each hang on filters, so theres filtration happening twice, and you got the 3 stage sump filter...so, it can't be a bad idea, right?

[Khalid]

JG-
if I understand you correctly – this is not a good idea especially if the sump is below the display tank. Gravity will flood the bottom tank if there is a power cut

if the above does not happen, how do you know if the two pumps flow rate is
Exactly the same, result overflow tank or broken pump

[JesseG]

is there anyway of stopping the bottom tank from flooding if there is a power cut?

[Linxie]

From the way you're explaining it, it sounds alright to me.

@ Khalidmanack... would it still flood if the water is being pumped to and from the tank?
The way I'm thinking is that if the power is cut, the filters won't pump any water to or from the sump, thus leaving the water level as is, or am I confusing myself now. (not hard to do hehe)

[JesseG]

both the pumps circulate water at 800l/h...the flow rate should be the same, why would it change Khalidmanack?

[JesseG]

i do understand your concern with the flooding KhalidManack, but if the syphon pipe is sitting 1inch blow the water line, then if there is a power cut, only inch of water can be syphoned out to the bottom tank, this will not be enough to flood the bottom tank...
also, how true is Linxie's statement about water not being syphoned from mechanical pumps...

[neilh]

Waste of time. HOB pumps aren't meant to push water up metres. They are strong enough to pull water through their siphon pipe and back out the outlet, not metres up from a sump into a display tank.

And yes, you will get a reverse siphon when a mechanical pump stops

[JesseG]

so, if use a pump for the return pipe to the display tank, this system would work, yes?

[Wimpie]

The best is to use a overflow box instead, this eleminates the chance of overflooding if the the sump has enough space to cater for additional bit of water

[Linxie]

Thanks for your explanation NeilH, makes alot more sense now :)

Jesse's idea got me thinking, but Ruan has a point too :D

Thanks for the thread JesseG ^^,

[JesseG]

wait, my questions still haven't been answered as yet, glad i could help linxie..

okay, i'm going to have to research the overflow box and my idea... thanks for the help guys/gals

[neilh]

It could. But I wouldn't have a pump pushing water from the display to the sump. What happens when your return pump dies? You start pumping your display into the sump and a big mess follows.

You also haven't taken into account evaporation...

Best solution is drilling a pane in the tank for an overflow box/standpipe or google DIY Overflow

[carl p]

i will also suggest drilling a pane and fitting an external overflow box to the tank somehow, it realy cant be that dificult.

[ACE007]

You can make an overflow out of PVC pipe to get the water down to the sump and then get pipe that would fit tight over the hang on filter pipe.
Maybe first test with a pipe and see if you can get it flowing.
Then you use both hang on filters to pull the water up.
Make your overflow so that it is just below your water line so if there is a power outage the tank won't siphon to the sump.

That would be my idea to try and see if it's possible. :bigsmile:

[JesseG]

hi Ace,

Not quite sure what you mean by make an overflow out of PVC pipe to get the water down to the sump, should i make an overflow box? is this what you are suggesting, keep in mind that i'm an IT technician and not an engineer..

[Zoom]

Your pump pumping the water in to the sump will be 800l/p/h PLUS the syphon effect of gravity.

The pump pumping the water into the tank will be 800 l/p/h LESS the effect of gravity.

Not balance.

You are correct that you won't flood due to syphon as the water will only drop 1 inch... if that is where the pump sits... but the water will be taken out the tank faster than it can be returned, and the pump will eventually be running on dry air... = burnt out pump!

[JesseG]

so, do you suggest that i purchase a stronger pump for the return or should i just go the overflow box route?

[Zoom]

Get a stronger pump for the return, and let gravity do the feeding into the sump. Just google and search the forum on how to balance the 2, and prevent unneccesary flooding.

[ACE007]

I'll try and find a easy overflow that you can build yourself. Google is full of DIY overflow boxes / pipes ....

[JesseG]

thanks guys, i appreciate all the input

[ACE007]

This looks like a easy one to build. The front pipe which is lower than the back one would be your overflow. At the back right top is a air hose to release any air in the pipe. Then it goes down and out to the left by the T piece.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/attachments/i-made/4411-nice-cheap-diy-overflow-overflowmydry.jpg?d=1108229259

[JesseG]

how would i set this up ACE00007? i wasn't joking when i said i had little knowledge of sumps and overflow boxes...

[JesseG]

its cool ACE007, i did some googling and understand how it works ,thanks buddy

[ACE007]

:blink1: I personally still want to try and build one...

O and I'm also a IT techie