New Setup

[Sparky]

Hi Guys

Basically, I would like some info. I've been keeping marine fish for just about a year now and I love it, but, it does seem to cost me a fortune stocking a new tank and keeping it running.

Are tropical fish any cheaper to keep? Please consider setup and running costs. I have a 300L tank just sitting around, so please throw in some guesswork as to what it would take to start up. I haven't done any research yet on what I'd like to keep, so some suggestions would go a long way too.

I know its difficult to comment when even I don't know what I want, so apologies for that.

[Henk Hugo]

well it depends on your filter options, the lighting and of course the fish. but in general terms it is MUCH cheaper than marines

[Sparky]

What would my filter options be? The tank has 3 built in partitions. 1st lets water in through an inlet at the bottom, this then overflows into the 2nd partition which then again lets water into the 3rd through a bottom inlet. I can bypass these if there is a better way of doing it.

Also, from what I have read, the lighting required is a lot less than on the marine tank?

[Henk Hugo]

that tank sounds like a sump with those compartments and not a display tank. do you have any photos of it?

[Sparky]

I don't have on me... still at work bhaaa... basically the main tank is 1.5m, with about a 15 - 20cm section on the side with the 3 compartments I explained

[Singularity]

sounds like an internal box filter, kinda like a internal sumpp if u will, have only heard good things about these kinda filters (if setup correctly i am sure)

[HellRaiser]

that sounds like the old style of tanks that had a built in filtwr on one of the sides of the tank
inside the first chamber you can place the heater, and some carbon inside bags
in the second you can place a whole lot of filter floss, and in the last you can place some ceramic rings with a return pump back to the tank
if the return pump is around 2000L per hour on your size tank then the filtration will be on par with a pretty decent canister filter, if not better considering the ease of maintenance and capacity than can be much more than a normal canister filter
just keep the filter floss clean to avoid a build up of gunk, and replace the carbon regularly

[Sparky]

It is like an internal sump. Sorry guys... lol... late in the day... brain isn't quite functioning like it should...

[Sparky]

that sounds like the old style of tanks that had a built in filtwr on one of the sides of the tank
inside the first chamber you can place the heater, and some carbon inside bags
in the second you can place a whole lot of filter floss, and in the last you can place some ceramic rings with a return pump back to the tank
if the return pump is around 2000L per hour on your size tank then the filtration will be on par with a pretty decent canister filter, if not better considering the ease of maintenance and capacity than can be much more than a normal canister filter
just keep the filter floss clean to avoid a build up of gunk, and replace the carbon regularly

Hi HellRaiser

Sorry, you touched on another point I wanted to ask. With Marine's the flow rate had to be pretty high. How many times should the water turn over with a tropical setup?

[Rory]

Just enough for the filter really :p

[HellRaiser]

well, 1000L per hour for such a filter would be the minimum, and 2000L per hour the maximum.. its just for the filtration in this filter to function properly
this will be the only flow you need in the tank for a freshwater setup, no additional pumps inside the display area will be required
have you also decided if it will be fish only, or a planted tank?
do you want big fish like oscars or malawis, or small ones like tetras and danios?
also, a species tank, or a comunity tank consisting of a variety of compatible fish?

[Henk Hugo]

betwen 3 to 5 times per hour. depending on the stock levels and the plants in the tank

[HellRaiser]

yup, as henk stated, the turnuver can be big if its a heavly stocked tank with lots of fish producing wastes
the turnover means the return pump's rating against the tank volume, so if its a 300L tank, a turn over of 4 would require a pump of 1200L per hour, but also take into consideration the loss of flow on the pump due to head height of the exit and length of the pipe connected to it, and the loss in water volume due to substrate and tank decor displacing some water

[Sparky]

I think a planted tank would look great, but to be honest I haven't read enough about either one to fully decide one or the other. Gimme another couple days to do some research, and then I can give you guys more info. Thanks for the awesome help thus far guys. Will probably be a community tank with smaller fish.

[HellRaiser]

the planted route if decided on can be a very goof way to set up a comunity tank, making the setup look very natural and aiding alot in natural filtration of fish wastes.. and if you then decide on a comunity tank of small fish that are plant friendly id strongly sugest going the natural planted way, do a google on diana walstads natural setup technique (there are a few links on another forum but dont know if im alowed to post a link to that forum here...)
in a well established natural planted setup maintenance also goes down alot, with once a month water changes and virtualy no algae on the glass and tank itself, and fish tend to breed quite easily in these setups too

[Sparky]

the planted route if decided on can be a very goof way to set up a comunity tank, making the setup look very natural and aiding alot in natural filtration of fish wastes.. and if you then decide on a comunity tank of small fish that are plant friendly id strongly sugest going the natural planted way, do a google on diana walstads natural setup technique (there are a few links on another forum but dont know if im alowed to post a link to that forum here...)
in a well established natural planted setup maintenance also goes down alot, with once a month water changes and virtualy no algae on the glass and tank itself, and fish tend to breed quite easily in these setups too

Thanks HellRaiser, I will definitely check it out.

[Sparky]

Hi Delilah

Yes I have an RO unit at home for the marines so I'll be using that for the tropicals too.

[Sparky]

Its 1500x450x450

[hotdog83]

Your possibilities for a loose biotope are almost endless in that size tank!

African non-lake: Big school of Congo Tetras, a few pairs of Kribs, African Butterfly Cichlids, African Glass Catfish, Butterfly Fish, Synodontis, Climbing perch, elephant nose etc.
African lake: Malawi or Tanganyikan cichlids
South American non-discus: Dwarf Cichlids like Rams, Bolivian Rams, big school of tetras, big school of Corydoras, Ottocinclus.
Asian river: Barbs, loaches, Glass Catfish, Red Tail Shark, Siamese Algae eaters etc.
Asian still water: Gouramies etc
Rainbow tank: All the different rainbow fish you can find.


Even a very nice community tank will look awesome!

[Sparky]

Your possibilities for a loose biotope are almost endless in that size tank!

African non-lake: Big school of Congo Tetras, a few pairs of Kribs, African Butterfly Cichlids, African Glass Catfish, Butterfly Fish, Synodontis, Climbing perch, elephant nose etc.
African lake: Malawi or Tanganyikan cichlids
South American non-discus: Dwarf Cichlids like Rams, Bolivian Rams, big school of tetras, big school of Corydoras, Ottocinclus.
Asian river: Barbs, loaches, Glass Catfish, Red Tail Shark, Siamese Algae eaters etc.
Asian still water: Gouramies etc
Rainbow tank: All the different rainbow fish you can find.


Even a very nice community tank will look awesome!

Thanks for all the ideas! Gives me some work to do to check up on all these and see what I would prefer.

[Jaak]

Ahoy Sparky, i second everything everyone else has said so far. FW setups are much less expensive not only to setup but also to maintain. I feel your pain with the cost of Marines...

[Sparky]

Ok, I had forgotten I had created this thread.

So I have ordered a new 600L marine tank (yip, just couldn't give them up), but I am going ahead with the fresh water too. I have purchased an external filter rated at 1250LPH, unfortunately I had no place for an external sump on the fresh water; however, the filter is just giving me endless grief. I can constantly hear air hitting the impeller, but cannot find the source of it. I have rechecked all tubing but no joy yet. I'm going to fiddle around with it a bit more this evening.

But enough of that, it will get sorted somehow. Here is what I am thinking of doing, please let me know your thoughts. I'd like to have a fine sand substrate as I like the look of it, how deep should this substrate be, and how would this affect keeping live plants?

[Vis]

Fine substrate should be fine. I have about a 3-4cm thick substrate.
You should however check what the plantsa you want like. Some like water movement around the roots
other don't mind a dense fine substrate.
I like to mix the two,fine and a little coarser.

[shihr]

or, have the bottom layer coarse topped off with a 1-2cm fine substrate

[Sparky]

Me again guys

Ok, tank is filled and busy doing it's thing.

Looking for some advice on plants and fish, obviously not for now as the tank still has to cycle, but I'd like to get some ideas together so I can plan it. I've never kept plants before, so what would be a good starting point on some easy plants? Also, what is the recommended time frame after the tank has cycled?

[Sparky]

Another question.

I want to redo the lighting before anything else. Maximum space I have is 1400mm x 400mm.

What would your suggestions be, considering that I would like to keep both plants and fish.

Thanks guys