My little pH project

[solex69]

Ola guys

So yah, I've now decided to embark on a little project to see how low I can get our water in Cape Town to drop to. I would like to see if the process below will help us all in getting water parameters inline for breeding tetras, discus, etc etc.


For the 1st phase, I've filled a little cube with normal tap water and chucked a decent amount of Peatgro Pure Organic Peat on the water surface. This will remain as is for a period of 2 weeks so that all the peat would've sunk by then and formed the substrate in the cube. A pH reading will then be done and updated here.

Once phase 1 is completed, I will be placing a piece of dry indian almond leaf in the water and let it stand for about a week...maybe two. Another pH reading will be done then and updated here.

For phase 3, I'll add a teabag to the cube for about one week. A final pH reading will be done then and updated here.

Henk - Would you recommend I use an airstone from phase 2 onwards?

Here are some pics of the 1st phase

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004778.jpg


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004779.jpg


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004781.jpg


Cheers for now
Dale

[Henk Hugo]

How low do you want to take that PH? test it every 2nd day.... might drop VERY quickly

[solex69]

Going as low as what I can get it.
Will try to test tomorrow

[Henk Hugo]

so you want to drop it to say 3?

[solex69]

Then it'll be as if they are in the Rio Negro itself! :)

I'll aim for 3.0 - 3.5....that an ideal benchmark.

[Henk Hugo]

mmmmmmmmm.... ok as long as it is wild fish then its not a problem....

[Singularity]

Would be interesting to see a daily update on ph drops etc to see where it stabilizes in each phase, if that makes any sense :D

[Singularity]

Ps. with what are you testing ?

[solex69]

Going to borrow an electronic pH meter. Will also do test with the normal test strips from LFS and see what the differences are

[Singularity]

Tetra strips ? i believe they only go down to a ph of 6.4 and not very accurate for the price, i still use them though but mainly for a quick NO3 check. Ph pens are relatively cheap, about R300-400 for a saga. pm and i can give you a link to where i got mine, only downside is the calibration

[Henk Hugo]

PH pens DO NOT work in soft water. they need conductivity in the water to be accurate. you need a science grade PH meter to get an acurate reading in soft water

[Singularity]

doesnt it work at all ? do you get false readings ? i only tested it once on distilled water and got a reading of 7 the same reading we got at the uni lab, isnt distilled water also soft ?

[Henk Hugo]

you get false readings.... or thats what the Prof explained

[Singularity]

I get a sample tested once in a while just for ph at the uni, next time i will take some pure RO along and test it at the same time, maybe the distilled water was just a fluke, but will make sure :) The test strips arent very reliable, but i know by now what they look like when everything is normal, i test further if there is something of, if that makes sense :D

[solex69]

I'll try and contact another friend of mine who has a proper scientific pH meter...will save me the trip to the Prof each week

[Singularity]

ok been doing some quick reading and it seems that you would need a tds of atleast 160ppm for a reliable reading from a ph pen, does that seem right to you henk. they actually say 100microSiemens/cm but that is roughly 160ppm....

[Henk Hugo]

yea sounds about right....

[Singularity]

ok and would i be right in saying that will be 3.3d GH minimum required ?

[Henk Hugo]

no idea - i will go do some research when i have a moment

[Singularity]

please do, if that is the case it should be fine on my tank water

[Laure]

Hi guys

I read in this thread about the test with almond leaves. Never heard of that before. So it got me thinking and I researched it a little on the web. But it appears to have some health benefits. Check this: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Nagendra_Almond_Leaf.html

I haven't got too much time today, but there must be more articles documenting the benefits, perhaps with some proper explanation and proof. Any thoughts?

Regards
L

[LanceP]

It sounds good if it works, but I'm not really keen on the brown water.

[Singularity]

yeah i agree lance, prefer crystal clear :p

[Henk Hugo]

yea but the rivers that most of these fish come from aint clear....

[Singularity]

yes ofcourse, just a personal preference thing :)

[Henk Hugo]

you can always add carbon to remove the browness

[Slummies]

So will carbon only remove the murkyness and leave all the good stuff behind?

[Henk Hugo]

aha... the million zim dollllllllla question...... no.... carbon strips the water.....

[solex69]

Very interesting read Laure. I've used Almond leaves before when spawning with bettas. It does colour the water almost instantly...it leeches very quickly indeed (it even dyed my java moss brown permanently). Also it changed the 'texture' of the water...made it slightly slimey.


Ok, herewith updated pics. All taken 03 Feb 2009 @ 16h50. The peat has begun to sink...bulk of it is underneath the water surface. First pH reading scheduled the following weekend. I want the peat to be flat on the bottom before I remove any water for readings. The water is already brown.


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004804.jpg




http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004805.jpg


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004808.jpg


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004806.jpg


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/solex69/S5004809.jpg

[Henk Hugo]

that looks like something you would spawn killi fish in....

[solex69]

If you say so :) ... I know absolutely nothing about Killis

[Henk Hugo]

google them.... might be a nice little project :D

[Slummies]

1st time EVER i saw killies in the lfs. they were clown ones i think?

[Henk Hugo]

you will have to go on the killi forums and ask the guys to send you eggs

[solex69]

I checked out some killis at Profs place....beautiful fish indeed :)

Cheers
Dale

[Singularity]

henk, have you had time to do any research into the ph pen thing ?

[Henk Hugo]

nope - but i have been talking to a few folks and they all agree it doesnt work in soft water, none of them can tell me at which point is actually starts to work 100%

[solex69]

Ok, the first pH reading is 6.6

[veegal]

Hey Dale - whatever happened to this project? Do you still have it running? I can't remember seeing any brown gunky tank at your place :)

[solex69]

Oh yah....disposed of it last week when I did some cleaning.
Also, a slight prob to get accurate readings as I don't have an electronic reader....have to ask the Prof. A pH pen is said to not be entirely accurate for our water, hence I took samples to the prof instead. Was becoming a bit of an issue considering the distance.
The last reading I got before I threw it away was 5.7 (from a pH pen)

[Zafgak]

Hi Guys OK this is going to be a long one so hang in there --- :bigsmile:

Firstly the good news - I have just purchased a lab grade pH probe and amplifier - the price : R770-00 for the probe and R550-00 for the amp.. For a lab grade setup this is VERY cheap and I will happily pass on details on where to get them ex Jhb.

The reason I bought it is for the "Famous Fish Room" which will be a thread by Veegal (My Georgeous wife) starting tommorrow.

What I propose to do is fairly simple. Take a 100 litre drum of water, next to that take a 20 litre drum. Put the pH probe in the 20 litre drum and add about 18 litres de-chlorinated water. Stir gently. Add acid slowly ( using a piece of air pipe and an electrically controlled valve ) and let the pH instrument control the acid dosing valve. This way I can set the pH required and control it to 2 decimal points or better. When the pH is at the required value (can be set anywhere) pump the water into the 200 litre drum and repeat until there is 200 litres of the correct pH water. This is then circulated to all the tanks, and new pH correct water is made up when needed.

I recently completed a project at work for a pharmaceutical lab that was growing "Bugs" to make vaccines. In that project I had to keep the water at 37 degrees +_ 0.2 degrees, pH at 7.15 +_ 0.05, Dissolved oxygen at 98% ( This varied quite a bit as the bugs grew and used up the O2 ) and we kept a watch on Optical density (How clear the water is) to monitor how well the bugs were growing.

So keeping a constant pH is relatively easy if you have half a million rand to throw at it. The trick is to do it at home for as little as possible. What I am trying to do is get correct pH water at the least possible cost. So far I am in for the cost of the pH probe and amplifier. Add the cost of the tanks and the control valve and I am hoping to get away with about R2000-00 all in.
I have access to a controller so that cost I am saving..

If anyone wants details of this system and how to go about it give me a shout Ill be happy to pass on what I know.