View Full Version : Discus in the Eastern Cape
Hi everybody
I am looking for Discus breeders in the Eastern Cape area. LFS usually stock rubbish or overpriced or don't know how to care for them. Is there anybody on this forum that can help?
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 06:58
which LFS do you go to in PE?
There are plenty, but none that keep any discus worth buying. The only one I trust is Ultimate Aquariums in Walmer. Their fish are great and their advice and service even better. But they only ever get Pidgeon Blood and I don't want those. Other stores - forget it. Fish looks unhappy, sick, etc.
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 07:12
Go chat to Chris at Ultimate - tell him i sent you and that he is the only guy in PE that can help you with good discus :D
I want to buy 6 juvis from a breeder and grow them out in bare bottom tank before moving to my main display tank. I don't mind the daily water changes. I have 2 young boys. My evenings consist of chores anyways! ;)
But I am still looking for an economical way to lower pH. Port Elizabeth's pH is 8.5 out the tap. I haven't tested buffering yet, but have had some success with pH Down. The water I've been testing in a bucket with air pump has been stable at 7 for 10 days now but 30l required 30 drops of pH down. You can imagine the task of counting drops of pH down and the eventual cost...
I previously dealt with Jeff at Ultimate, but I can speak to Chris too. Thanks for the advice. Will they be getting the fish from you then? I am sorry if I ask a stupid Q, I am new to this forum. Are you a breeder/wholesaler/importer?
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 07:17
I import fish food :D
Chris is the owner and he should be able to sort you out.
As for the PH theres various option. Peat, bog/drift wood, indian almond leaves, citric acid etc....
Slummies
29-01-2009, 07:23
If you have access to rain water, use it! im in East London (way out of the industrial zone) and i used it with much sucess!
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 07:26
some reading material
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_softeners.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/water_chemistry.php
Rain water! When last did it rain here? :) But maybe I should get a rainwater tank and stock up... when it eventually rains... :) Slummies I will send you a pm
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 07:40
watch out for rain water as it contains acids and poisons now.... the info on rainwater is old. NEVER take any rainwater from your roof as the paint contains heavy metals as well as dust particles that land on your roof......
Slummies
29-01-2009, 07:57
old? it would be if iv never used it, but i have sucess with.
Laure: Henk is correct about keeping your roof clean, but also remember sediment will collect at the bottom so dont stir up the water to much and even better. Cut a 5L water bottle in half. put layers or charcoal and floss this will help purify the water:)
It been raining in EL quite a lot lately!!!
look forward to your PM! :)
Aaargh. Can't pm! Need 15 posts but with this one I now have 7.
Did anybody on this forum come accross this yet?
http://www.fishfantasyworld.co.za/discus_article_breedingdiscus.htm
Hope I can post links. I know some forums have restrictions. Let's see what happens. Here goes...
Slummies
29-01-2009, 08:05
There shouldnt be a problem
I have email them numurous time.. no reply
good luck with the 8 more posts
Singularity
29-01-2009, 08:23
slummies, did you email FF and no response ?
Slummies thanks for the info. I will let you know soon. When I can pm...
Slummies
29-01-2009, 08:37
yes. last year some time when i was still looking for quality discus. dont need their number anymore, getting fish from you mate
Singularity
29-01-2009, 08:42
just weird, derek usually replies quick to mails, even though it is just 1 or 2 word replies :D
I was actually referring to the article by Tony Koen. His method of add "pool acid" and maturing the water. Basically adding more acid than the carbonate buffers can handle. Then leaving it standing to see if it remains stable. Seems like a simple and cheap method. I would go as far as adding a pump with an airstone to the maturing water in order to get rid of excess CO2. Then one will probably get a more accurate idea of how the water will behave in a tank. This, of course, if you don't have any plants in the tank or CO2 injection.
I understand the difficulties in adding chemicals etc. and agree RO is the way to go. Just wanted to know what you guys thought of the article.
Slummies
29-01-2009, 08:52
sorry laure... didnt even realise;)
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 08:52
i would use citric acid... works great
Singularity
29-01-2009, 08:53
Hi Laure, i would steer clear of using acid for adjusting ph, why dont you take a sample of water, test ph, earate over night and then retest. If it is in the +/-7 range you will be fine, you are looking at providing the fish with stable conditions and not providing idealistic conditions, if that makes any sense to you ?
sorry laure... didnt even realise;)
no worries
read it, if you want to, and post your thoughts/comments
Hi Laure, i would steer clear of using acid for adjusting ph, why dont you take a sample of water, test ph, earate over night and then retest. If it is in the +/-7 range you will be fine, you are looking at providing the fish with stable conditions and not providing idealistic conditions, if that makes any sense to you ?
Exactly what I thought. Pool acid? Hmmm. But it seems his fish are still alive a couple of months later. I'd still also rather avoid strong acids like hydrochloric acid.
Aggitating the water with an air stone releases the CO2 gasses, in theory making the water more acidic, from what I've read on all sites talking about planted discus tanks and CO2 injection.
Unless I am totally missing something, and it is entirely possible :bigsmile:, how can aerating the water lower the ph? I am not challenging your theory, just wanting to understand it.
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 09:04
Hi Laure, i would steer clear of using acid for adjusting ph, why dont you take a sample of water, test ph, earate over night and then retest. If it is in the +/-7 range you will be fine, you are looking at providing the fish with stable conditions and not providing idealistic conditions, if that makes any sense to you ?
If you have a a drum in which you mature the water before you use then acid is not a problem... just dont use it directly in the tank where the fish are kept
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 09:05
Unless I am totally missing something, and it is entirely possible :bigsmile:, how can aerating the water lower the ph? I am not challenging your theory, just wanting to understand it.
if you council adds a carbinate to the water you oxydize it out of the water and then the PH should drop to the PH that it was before it went into the water works.... which is the case here in CPT
Singularity
29-01-2009, 09:13
henk what is the hardness levels of CPT area tap water +/- ?
I phoned the local municipality in PE. You know they wanna charge me R35 for information on the water parameters and what they put in etc.? Unbelievable. We drink the stuff. Shouldn't it be free public knowledge? I have the right to know what goes in the stuff I pay for anyway every month! Products on shop shelves are required to indicate what is in there. What makes the municipality so special? Oh yeah, never mind, I know...
Singularity
29-01-2009, 09:24
What makes the municipality so special? Oh yeah, never mind, I know...
:bigsmile: :D
Thank you all for the advice. I don't want to get in the middle of an argument. I just wanted to know who breeds discus in my area.
Hi Laure
If your water is hard and alkaline I would suggest you use RO water to soften the water to more acceptable levels.
The way to do this would be to mix the RO water with your tap water to get the desired hardness levels. For instance if your tapwater is sitting at 12 degrees hardness and you want to get it down to 6 degrees you would mix 50% tap water with 50% RO water.
Just remember that the Reverse Osmosis process wastes a lot of water.
I know that CO2 also decreases the pH and constant CO2 injection results in a consistent lower pH. Then, of course, plants would benefit and the increase in oxygen production through the plants will benefit the fish. CO2 injectors are also expensive, but has anybody on this forum read this:
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/co2-narten.html
Who is keen to try it? I don't have a planted tank, but would love to see somebody try it and report back. Perhaps somebody wants to start a new thread and give this a go and preiodically report back with some pics too.
Hi Laure
The DIY CO2 method works well in small tanks, but it becomes a bit of a hassle.
Please just remember that the bigger problem in keeping discus is not just the pH, but also the carbonate and total hardness of the water. CO2 will drop the pH but will not lower the hardness of the water.
Singularity
29-01-2009, 11:31
I have tried the yeast method, and it seems to work well, but i removed it as my discus didnt seem to fond of the extra CO2 :)
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk85/singularity96/DSC00165.jpg
Singularity, did you find the plants did not produce enough O2 for the fish, or did you find the Co2 production from the yeast was too much? I guess with an uncontrolled method such as the DIY CO2 injector, one needs to be careful and also frequently test the levels until a working standard is achieved. Even then a level test every couple of weeks would be required just to be sure no other factors started incluencing the equilibrium.
Singularity
29-01-2009, 12:15
yes i think it was because of a bit to much, i had no way of controlling the amount of CO2 entering the tank, you could always just try liquid supliments
http://www.seachem.com/Products/Planted.html
I am not really interested in keeping plants. I want to inject CO2 as an inexpensive way of keeping a stable low pH.
What I would do is get an electronic pH meter and daily monitor this meter. Then hook up the Co2 and regulate the flow until the pH comes down to 6.8, which is where I want it for my main display tank. The see if it can remain there for a while. With the yeast method, it will eventually run out and the meter will show a pH climb. At this point, it is time to replace the yeast mix with a fresh one. Of course, I would do this in a "lab" environment with no live fish to start off until I know the drill. I would also add an airstone or something to mimic gas exchanges that occur naturally in tanks.
I know the fully automated CO2 systems hook up to a pH meter and if the pH changes it regulates the amount of CO2. Manual CO2 systems require the fishkeeper to check the pH or CO2 level daily and make adjustments accordingly.
There is also a number of sources on the web with the pH/kH/CO2 tables that show the relationship between these. Ideal scenario is pH=6.8 or 6.9, kH=4 and CO2=15
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 15:15
henk what is the hardness levels of CPT area tap water +/- ?
i have no idea of the levels but i do know its VERY soft...
Henk Hugo
29-01-2009, 15:22
Whooooooooooohaaaaaa! ok guy thread cleaned up. can we stick to issues at hand which is keeping fish happy....
Guys please note that any personal attacks etc on this site will not be tolerated. You are welcome (even encouraged) to debate issues, different techniques, products etc but please do this in a constructive manner and try to provide references where possible (this does not mean quote out of context).
Ones self-worth should not be judged on how "right" you are or whether you win the argument. Rather try and learn something, and if you have already learn't the hard way that something is in fact the opposite try to put your point across in a constructive manner by giving as much detail as you can of your "experiments". You never know when there could be another factor involved etc.
I refer to Rory's message above. Debating issues is encouraged. Why then are all my posts being deleted? I believe Dirk's advice was relevant. Could I copy and paste it with his permission?
Henk Hugo
30-01-2009, 00:48
I refer to Rory's message above. Debating issues is encouraged. Why then are all my posts being deleted? I believe Dirk's advice was relevant. Could I copy and paste it with his permission?
That would be great! :bigsmile:
Judging by your tag Henk, you attained a lot of wisdom yesterday!
LOL!
Funny how the wheel turns though :)
In any case, I know where you are coming from,
We had the same issue on (that other site), and in the end decided to only delete posts which were offensive or attacking.
PS. Admin guys, we found it helps to keep tempers down if you PM the people when deleting their posts to explain the reasons.
Laure, I have not managed to get hold of Dirk Bellstedt as yet, but "that other site" had the most amazing thread regarding your exact questions. I was in my early days of discus and posed a similar question about manipulating water for discus. Dirk's reply was so thorough, but also made so much sense. He commented on the use of RO as well as other agents....worth a read
Henk Hugo
30-01-2009, 09:16
He is in Angola atm :D
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