Khuli loaches 'Rolling' - Please help!

[Big G]

I'm trying to identify a problem I seem to be having in my tank...

I've had 4 khuli loaches die in the past 3 weeks....

The first two had whitespot and died probably more due to an overdose of meds (Gross Miscalculation I'm afraid!). I added another 4 khulies once the medication was finished, and they were all fine for a while, but then this week I lost two more! Both died within a day or so of each other, and exhibited similar symptoms... My initial thought was whitespot again, but if it is whitespot then they are really lacking in spots.... So i guessed its not that??

So.. Here are the symptons... any clues?? The most obvious thing is that the Khulis seem to roll over on their backs and back on their fronts several times in a spin! Or they'll go up to the top of the tank and then decend again in a spining or upside down position.

The other symptom is that their body colour changes... their heads stay as pink and black as normal, but the body firstly the black fades, and then secondly the whole body colour fades with a kinda grey cast over it! By this stage I think its beyond redemption, and before long even within a few hours, the Khuli is dead!

I have two khulis left, one seems absolutley fine, whilst the other smaller one is still going but looks quite laboured in its swimming (slow and steady) and all of its fins are closed down flush with the body! Even the tail fin is relatively closed!

No other fish appear to be ill, although my neons have nipped each others fins over and over!

All the books I have don't mention anything about these kind of symptoms, so I'm really clueless!

Thanks in advance if you can help?
Cheers
Big G!

[Henk Hugo]

Can you please list your water paramiters?

No2, No3, NH3, PH, hardness etc

[Big G]

I'll have to do a recheck, but the pH had risen from about 6.8 to 7 to 7.2! I removed a rock that I suspected to be the posible cause a few days back, so I'm allowing things to settle!

I'm also going to do a water change today or tomorrow, so I'll be able to see where levels stand then!

I have to say tho, that I do find pH a really hard scale to read! Guess because the water is transparent and the comparison chart is solid coloured so the shade of green can cover most pH levels on the card depending on how the light hits the tube!

I'd love to have an eletronic pH meter, but just can't afford it at the mo!

Cheers
Big G!

[Henk Hugo]

i would spend money on some SERA test kits... dont waste your money on a PH pen... our water is WAY to soft for it to actually work.

[Big G]

Sorry, excuse my ignorance, but what is a SERA test kit??

So I guess the water around Cape Town is pretty soft then! I thought it was since when i wash my hands I really have to rub to get the soap off! haha!

Yer, I'm thinking that either the rock or the substrate is to blame for the pH change! I have three Mopani woods in the tank (80cm tank) and my water is constantly brown (even after a water change) and I believe that this wood helps to keep the water soft and slightly acidic? So I guess theres a source of alkalinity in there!

I did check when buying the substrate (fine gravel) that it was actually none alkaline, but with the service I've recieved from some sales people recently, they could have just said yes to get a sale!?

I'm really looking forward to getting the new tank setup so I can learn from my mistakes so far and readjust accordingly! It has been several years since I last kept fish, so there's lots I'd forgotten or just didn't know to start with!

Cheers
Big G!

[Big G]

Oh, and yes I did leave the mopani wood to soak for a few days to reduce the leaching, but it still seems to leach!

One other thing is that the mopani wood appears to be becoming fury! I'm guessing its some sort of mold forming?? Is this normal??

Cheers
Big G!

[snakes]

Besides your pH how does your other readings look
Have you changed any thing in tank like filter media etc
Could it be a ammonia spike but then again your neons are fine
Do Neons Nip Fins or is it Fin Rot

[Henk Hugo]

SERA is a brand of test kits - ask Nico - he sells it.

The fluff on the mopani is normal. get some snails and they will eat it

[Big G]

Hey Folks! Happy new year! Sorry I haven't been around for quite some time but its been a crazy start to 2009!

Anyhow, I did manage to resolve some of the issues stated above, mainly because I setup a 315L corner tank with pool filter sand rather than the gravel that was in my previous 80cm tank. So my pH has stabalised at around 6.6 to 6.8.

As yet I've not gotten the SERA kits, but have been able to test my peramiters by other means until I get the money for SERA's!

They are all reading ok, although one test is for alkalinity (kH? I'm assuming this is more the buffering capacity?) which shows as being very low, and not within the ideal range on the test, but suggests using pH up to bring it in line with where the reading supposedly ideal, but surely this will affect the actual pH? It just seems terribly confusing!

Anyhow, The other readings show no issues.

Everything seemed fine in the new aquarium, until just after christmas when I had an outbreak of white spot! 12 fish dead, even after treatment! I think this was brought in by another fish, as I did buy a few fish just before christmas! In fact, some of the fish died the very next day after being introduced to the tank! I lost 3 Oto's and a Pakistani Yoyo Botia this way! I'm assuming this was due to the water conditions being too different to where they came from? I'd really love to be able to set up a quarenteen Tank, but its just not practical and is not permissible with the wifey!

But other than that the death toll seems to have stabilised now!

I have one Khuli left and he seems fine!

Cheers
Big G!

[Slummies]

hey bud. all i know is that you cant add normal white spot treatment with khulis in the tank. they are scale-less and i hear this will kill em.. maybe im wrong

[Big G]

Hey, yer I learnt that thge hard way when I had my first bought of white spot! The treatment I do have says to halve the dosage if you have loaches, so thats what I've been doing, but it still seems to be incredibly strong and I'm unsure whether I'm losing more fish from the medicine strength as aposed to the loss of fish from whitespot?!

Anyhow, it all seems good now! Hopefully!

Cheers!
Big G!

[Slummies]

good to hear. maybe another way to help kill the white spot in the future is to turn your heater up to 30degrees. this will speed up the life cycle and kill the bastard quicker!

[Big G]

Yip! I believe this to be helpfull, and at least that way, if I do loose any fish, at least the fish will be boiled so can feed someone! haha! Sorry! Sick joke! Far too early in the morning! I apologise!