White spots on Angelfish's head (doesn't look like ich)

[Zeiphex]

So this morning I got up and turned on the tank lights as usual, when I noticed three white spots on the head of one of my angelfish. These fish have been in the tank for a few months and have always been healthy. I have not changed anything in the maintenance/feeding schedule, but I did add two clown loaches last week, and a reedfish on Friday (been wanting a buddy for my reedfish since I read that they prefer to be kept in groups, and LFS almost never seems to get them in). Thinking that it could be something that came in with the reedfish? Everyone else in the tank is fine. I'm not going to type out the questionnaire because nothing in my tank is any different to how it normally is, other than the fact that I introduced the new fish without QT (I don't have a QT tank at the moment). Details on my tank can be found on my profile. I know it is overstocked, but I have upped filtration significantly and will be taking a lot of the smaller fish out soon. All I want is for someone to identify the disease for me so that I can treat it. I don't want my clown loaches to get it... My best guess is ich, but it doesn't look like any ich I've ever seen, as the spots are a lot larger.

Pictures:

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Here you can see two spots quite clearly (circled in red). The third spot is much smaller (about the size of an ich spot) and is between the two visible spots.
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Here is the pair - the one on the right has the spots.
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Here you can see the spots again

If someone can give me a positive ID on this disease I'd really appreciate it. I don't want to medicate until I know what I'm dealing with here.

EDIT: It looks like Angelfish have three spots running along their heads in the exact pattern and location where mine has the white spots. They are very small and look like they are naturally part of the fish's anatomy - it looks like my fish has these areas swollen and white.

[Marius b]

Hi!! your Angels looks nice
not 100%. looks like a tipe of ich.
I like (tetra medica ContraSpot) it worked for me.
but please seek more advice.

If still no QTank. prep some water in clean container.
(plastic)NO METAL
I use vinigare to clean bakket and tools. rins well with water.
get the water redy 10-30liters putt air or w.pump on and surcilate water 24/7.
No grawel,stones or plants must be put in Qtank
So wen you get the staff and advice then your clean water
is redy to use! test water

but like I said seek more advice

mind my spelling please.

Good luck fish friend

[Marius b]

add AQA salt to water just make sure of pH angels dont like Hi pH
and as you now stess Quick

[TomK]

Thinking that it could be something that came in with the reedfish?

That is the most expect-able reason. Or with the Clowns a week ago. To Qt now is a bit late. Whatever it is, is now in your tank, 280lt I see. You will therefore have to treat in this tank, which is a pitty, as it is so big.

I would first treat with Flagyl. (Acuzole) It is safe, quick and effective. If the fish do not respond, then there is time for something else and then white spot (ich) is eliminated as a disease.

See these threads.
http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/showthread.php?7076-Ichthyophthirius-multifilis-%28Ich%29-White-Spot-treatment-advice&p=100829#post100829

http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/showthread.php?10256-White-spot&p=138905#post138905

[Zeiphex]

I've treated ich before, so I'll treat for ich as a preventative measure. I have the Marlton's "Anti-Ick" which I've had success with before. I can't use salt treatment because I have loaches (clowns and a blue botia), and plecos. I'll just use a half-dose of the stuff and keep an eye on the angel.

[TomK]

I will leave you with the following quote from Prof. Bellstedt.


Hi Guys,

All of this treatment with antiquated medications for Ich is actually ridiculous.

I have written on other occasions that medications such as methylene blue, Malachite Green and acriflavin should be put in the museum of fishkeeping and not used at all any more. Why they are still used in medications is because all the older literature indicates that they should be used, whilst in actual fact these medications are carcinogenic and therefore actually damage fishes, and secondly, due to the excessive use of these medications in the East, Malaysia and Singapore, all the disease forming organisms including ich are resistant to them. So not only are they totally useless but they are harmful as well.

Now, instead of using these medications for Ich, velvet and other protozoal diseases there is a much more effective and better alternative, and this is Metranidazole, which is the active ingredient of human medication for such diseases, and this is sold as Flagyl in various dosages or there are many generics which work just as well. Use it at 7 mg/l. Take the tablets, crush them between two teaspoons and put the white powder in your aquarium. It will form milky cloud but will dissolve after about an hour. This does nothing to plants or filtration and is also completely safe with the fishes. After three days do a 50% water change and repeat the dosage (it is important to do the repeat), and again after three days do another 50% waterchange and then all should be ok. You need no elevated temperatures, no salt, nothing additionally and it works like a shot.

Kind regards,

Dirk

[Zeiphex]

TomK, yes I have heard of using Flagyl, but apparently it is a prescription medication. How would one obtain this stuff?

[paulsea]

Ask your vet or doctor ,paid R17.00 for 20 400mg pills.
As we speak halfway through treatment and it works 100%

[Zeiphex]

Ok, awesome. There is a vet within walking distance of me and I take my rats there, so I could ask them C: I did put some Anti-Ick in so long, as I've had success with it before. If I get hold of Flagyl, I'll put some activated carbon in the filter system to cycle out the Anti-Ick first.

[TomK]

Flagyl. (Acuzole)

Remember, Flagyl is the active ingredient. The pills goes under a lot of brands/names. I bought Acuzole.

[azurekoi]

Your fish do not have ich - can categorically state that.... you also do not get "some type of ich"....

All Reedfish are wildcaught,generally treated very badly in transhipment and arive via importers to your tank with a host of nasty parasites on them in general...
Some of the Flagelates(For wich Flagyl works well on) is gnerally believed to be host specific to the Polypteridae family - think you got some other nasty working here... BTW- what you see as white spots on your angels are actally a fungal infection feeding of dead necrotic skin cells destroyed by the parasitical infedtion...

My advice - get someone with a microscope to identify WHAT PARASITE you are dealing with,before you treat....

[Zeiphex]

Hmm, spots are looking smaller for some reason. I can't believe it's the Anti-Ick already, so they must be going away by themselves. Just hopefully there won't be any new spots...

[azurekoi]

"Anti - Ich medication genearally contains Methylene Blue - strong anti - Fungal properties,so falling in line with what Im thinking is happening in your tank....
as the Prof states though - Meth/Blue pretty much useless in treating the modern parasite,due to its resistanse to this substance.... You are seeing the secondary/tertiary problem being treated effectively,but still sitting with the priamary infection...
are your fish showing any signs of "flicking"?

[Zeiphex]

Nope, no-one seems to be flicking/flashing (I have had ich infestations though when I had my 30L, and I got the whole tank through it and then the next week the tank burst while I was out and I lost everything in the tank. But my point is that I've seen flashing/flicking before and I'm not seeing it now), though I have often seen my blue botia and tinfoil barbs do it (pretty much ever since I got them, I'll see them do it from time to time). It was never excessive and they never showed signs of infection, nor did any of the other fish take to doing it, so I assumed it was just them being odd.

[Zeiphex]

The spots are almost gone now - about the size of small ich spots now. I reckon they'll be gone by morning. Maybe it was nothing after all...